Transcription from #122

Hi guys, welcome to threads podcast life unfiltered. Thank you so much for joining us tonight tomorrow the morning the night whenever you’re listening to this podcast, we really appreciate it. Tonight on the show we have special guests, our wife, Megan, hello, and Andy. And we’re super excited. Super excited. That’s one for me. Super excited to have them on tonight we’re gonna do a mental health uncomfortable conversations, subject matter or whatnot. But before we get into that Ben’s gonna tell new listeners what threads is all about and where we’re headed.

threads podcast is a show where we are unfiltered. And what does that mean? Well, we live in a world that tends to filter things and put up only the highlight reels of life versus the actual, this is what I’m going through type of life. So on tonight’s episode, you’ll see that come through as we talk about our mental health. And we are inviting our wives to give us their feedback of our mental health. So it might get a little unfiltered and a little uncomfortable. But that’s what we do here. Yeah, for us. You guys just get to enjoy it. So. But that’s the kind of conversation that we want to have on the show. When we get together to record we have three main buckets that we covered. Those would be faith, mental health and uncomfortable conversations. We’ll hit two of those tonight. And that’ll be a really good discussion that I’m maybe a little teensy bit nervous about. I


I think it’ll be good. Oh, my goodness, we’re gonna

say, What are you gonna?

What are you worried about?

I don’t know. I guess. Sometimes what we’re jumping right into the next question. Well, just

wait, no, we don’t have to. I was

just gonna say, sometimes, I’m not always sure that the progress I feel like making is necessarily seen for that, I guess. So. I guess what I’m saying is how do I I don’t know.

Well, like caught me off guard. Let’s jump into the icebreaker, which we always do. And how we do it on threads is Ben introduces it, and I just cut him off. But I’m gonna introduce it and what we’re doing, just talk about how we’re coming in tonight, how was the week, those kinds of things. But before we get into that, I just want to give a little caveat,

caveat that the right word depends on what you’re gonna say next.

We’re all wondering my results of what’s been going on for the last couple of weeks. And we are going to talk about it at the end of the show. But we want to focus on pre two weeks like what this what my mental health and Ben’s mental health has been before this last two weeks for me. So we are going to talk about at the end. So I know that’s kind of blue balling you. But you got to listen to the whole episode to find out. But yeah, I just wanted to throw that out there that we’re gonna focus and not talk about that in the first or for basically the whole show, and then we’ll touch on it later. So how are we all showing up tonight? Meghan, you go first.

Um, I’m pretty good. I have podcast nerves a little bit. Jason, I talked about this because I kept asking him a million questions about all the questions. Is this okay? Is this okay? But overall, good. Fine.

Feel not just not nervous?

Not really.

I be talked to down off the ledge.

Yeah, I get I’m not worried about the content of the show. I just get more worried that I’m gonna like bump something or,

and again, I reiterated to Andy’s nodding, and I was like, Listen, it ain’t. It was. It’s not gonna happen. I it’s been It was 20 weeks ago. 20 No, 21 weeks ago, that that happened because it was Episode 100. Because we did actually talk about it on the show. A couple of shows. Yeah. Yeah. And but. And it’s all good. I promise. I mean, unless you throw the mic on the table. I think I’ll be okay.

flip this table. Oh,

good. Luck hits heavy.

No upper body strength. So don’t worry.

How about you, Andy? How are you coming in tonight?

Um, I am coming in. Okay. I feel like, oh, Megan has this prepared notes.

Page notes. I’m

gonna fly by the seat of my pants because I think I don’t know I can. I think I can speak to all the questions. Okay. So maybe, I don’t know. Maybe it’s just because I’ve had kind of a busy week. It was my work week. So I’m a little tired. But caffeinated. So

when you say work week, you mean you work during the week too?

Yeah. So I’ve worked so I work kind of this weird. Two days on so I do like a Friday, Saturday off Sunday, Monday, but then I work Tuesday and Wednesday. And then I’m off again until the following Friday.


from Wednesday to the following Friday, so like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then I go to work on Friday. So it works out really nice. Except the next couple weeks. I’m working a random little short shrift on a Tuesday because, you know, they take everything. Right, but it’s okay. I mean, extra money is a good thing. Yeah. And it’s only like, six until midnight. So it’s not, it’s not Oh, that’s gonna

feel so short.

It’s gonna feel great. So and we’ve been really busy at work. So that ties into mental health. Everyone’s mental health is crap, especially kids and we’re seeing just such an increase in kids needing hospitalization and mental health assessments and things like that. So I think I’m I think I’m just tired. Miracle had a sleep study last night, so she slept I did not. So you know, but I’m used to not sleeping so it’s fine.

That’s so sad. You’re like I’m used to not sleeping. third shift life, you know, pretty much

sitting there at 2am wide awake, so not a big deal.

Oh, man life.

Thank God for smartphones. What did we do back in the day when we were watch?

Watch judge TV what was true awful thing was on at 4am

theaters. Do you ever watch cheaters? Sounds awesome.

Is that on? Like in the middle of the night? Like on local TV knows,


I think Annie like

hoarders all those good. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I

would stay up late just to watch


Yeah. See back when like I would. How old were you when you were doing that?

Late high school early college. Yeah, I

didn’t have cable growing up. So I got cable after I left the house. So thanks. Awesome. figure that but how about you any boy, how are you showing up?

You know, I’m just I just feel rattled today. Do you? That’s just not normal for a Saturday. Usually Saturdays are pretty low key, but was at the trampoline. Even before that, I think I was just feeling a little bit like, I don’t know. According to my Apple Watch, I’m not sleeping hardly at all.

Interesting. I

have. I’m waiting to get some new c pap supplies. And that’s a whole nother drama. Because I have to find a different vendor. I won’t get into it. But I don’t think I’m sleeping well at night. So I think that’s just causing, like, my response to the trampoline was probably a little bit overstated than it needed to be.

Yeah, that’s the story of my life.

So I just feel like I’m not sleeping enough. And I’m just I think that just feeds into you. overall sense of edginess.

daughter was like Did something happen earlier today cuz he’s walking off.

Yeah, that’s interesting that you bring cuz Avery will pick up on that for me too. Like did that have a bad day? Like he seems super edgy. And it’s always I always I kind of feel bad when my kid I’m like, Oh, shit. I gotta bring it around. I

have to go. We don’t have time for the net. I thought it would be quicker. Like, it’s cool. I’m gonna pick up the dog crap.

That’s what she did. Well, does

she quit though? So I don’t know how much actually got done. Well, if it’s not been touched all winter. I picked up the job. I picked up so much poop on our dog’s poop on our dad. Oh, yeah. I mean, when it all melted, it was just like, for like two days,

shutting the curtains up to the slider. So he didn’t have to see it out. There was just a disaster zone.

Oh, yeah.

So I’m showing up obviously, we talked about the the whole the last couple of weeks. But other than that, I’m feeling good today. I wasn’t going to go to the gym for the third time this week. But Mike, basically was a D bag to me in a loving way. And he’s like, I can’t believe you’re going to break your streak of three times. And that was last night and I was just having a day. I didn’t work yesterday because of rain, which is very weird, but whatever. Didn’t rain all day anyways. So I had a I just kind of had a day and I didn’t feel like going to do work and out and and so he tough talked me into it. And I went to the gym this morning actually set my alarm on a Saturday morning, which is depressing, right? went to the gym, had a great workout had a good therapy session. And so I’m coming in, I’m ready to rock this so exciting that you ladies gave me another chance. Even though you’re married to us, you still could tell me to eff off. And I appreciate that so much paperwork though. Yeah, that’s true.

Especially when there’s kids, right? Oh,

no kidding. Well, the point of tonight is to have a long form discussion. We’re not necessarily interviewing our guests. We’re more just wanting to have a have a conversation. You know, I’ve listened to some of our previous episodes where we had guests on it was like we just pewpewpew with questions, like got to get to all these different questions. And then you never really get to spend much time

you don’t get down and dirty.

Yeah, so we do have a list of questions, but we’re not going to like, stick to it like verbatim break it to everyone. We just want to have a conversation. We talk often on every episode practically about our mental health, we give an mental health update from our perspective. But we thought, Well, what about our wives who live with us and see us each day? With their assessment of our mental health be similar different? I don’t know. So we decided, let’s invite him and see what happened.

I’m not gonna lie. I’m, it’s, I’m really interested in the response. I know, especially like being on the show, like we talked about our mental health, but I’m interested to see how you see I’m doing and and vice versa for you, too. Yeah,

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say, that’s where some of your nerves are coming from you and I align personality wise, I would be nervous that my spouse would say something, and then it would be like, Oh, you know, like, even though, you probably know, and but just hearing, you know, and a lot of these questions are, you know, kind of like, what happens when things are not good, right? Yeah. So you’re already leaning into something that might be a little more on the negative side, and I would just be like, come out and be like, I’m garbage. I would worry that I would come out of it. But Nah.

Well, we will just go ahead and jump in. I thought it’d be fun for Jason and I to rate ourselves first. Okay, then hear what our lovely wives have to say. All right. So the scale that I made up, it’s not very scientific at all. I

mean, I How dare you? Cool.

So on a scale of one to 10, with one being totally unaware of your mental health, and 10 being actively taking steps on a daily basis to improve your mental health? Where would you put yourself sir Jason?

If I mean, if, if either of us choose one, we need to stop recording right now. And like this. What are we even doing? I would say I’m probably a seven. I feel like I work on my mental health, but I don’t feel like daily steps that people recommend that I do, like, maybe some meditation or like, my therapist, Heather, she’s always like telling me to have this like, this body check in like the do a body scan. Like I don’t do any of that stuff. And I probably should, it would probably would help. So I’ll give myself a seven.

That’s fair. I would put myself at a healthy eight. And the reason for eight because like you’re saying, There’s stuff that I talked with my therapist, and he’s like, well, try writing down your dream. Yeah. Like, really? I’ve done it before, and we actually have good conversations about it. But I don’t keep an active Journal of my dreams. Maybe I should, and maybe I’ll do more of it. But things like that. And then, like I know, it would be probably benefit me a whole lot to just go to bed at a decent hour. You are

and you you do push the limit for sleep. Sometimes I see that telegram lat last on telegram like 1145. You know, you got to work in the morning, right?

But work is in the office like across the

hall. That’s true. You don’t even have to shower, you can just

lie. I’m just so into the show that I started. And they told me on Hulu. Yeah, it’s blind spot on Hulu. I cannot stop. So maybe that’s a pointer to my mental health. But for those reasons, I’m giving myself an eight.

All right. What about you Andy? You’re right, you’re rating us. You can rate either you can rate each other to Oh, wait,


I think you’re a it’s a little aggressive. I asked my opinion. I

was gonna give you a seven sorry. Well, cuz Okay, for these things. I never give anybody a 10 because I don’t think you can ever be perfect. And like eight nine is like really kicking ass and not that you’re not like, I think if we just had to do this a year ago, I would have probably given you a four or five.

Yeah, that’s true. You, you

have made huge progress. And I know we’re supposed to talk about that later. But I would say a seven just for most of the reasons listed above that you gave

as I was talking, I was like, you know, that probably doesn’t sound like an eight. But yeah, it is.

It’s okay. I mean, it’s fine. I was thinking so I’m just really, I’m really critical. Anyway. So for me, not just a view, just everyone. So I would say a seven. I mean, I think I’d give myself around the same because I’m not. I’m not doing i mean i’m doing okay, but I’m not doing everything that I could be doing.

So, Megan,

actually was gonna give you a seven.

Okay, then for all the same reasons, probably

Samaria. Yeah, you know, and I feel like when you’re not feeling it, you’re 100% not feeling it. Like I feel like when it’s already Yeah, it’s when it’s kind of already in the morning. He’s like nap. It’s like the whole rest of the day like, nope, guy will not work on anything. Right?

Yeah. Okay, that’s fair. That’s fair. Do you want to rate the other? The other spouses? Do you think that’s too weird? So one of the other questions was how to how to Ben and I’s mental health struggle show up physically, in a relationship to spouse and family. So when you say physically, like me, like smashing stuff, or

just like physical as in? How are you showing up? Like, not in an emotional sense, but like how you’re in you share space with these people all day? How are you showing up in that type of relationship with them? Are you are you physically present? Are you physically distant? Oh,

well, physically distant would actually mean not in the house, or mentally distant,

physically distant could be you’re down. You know, for me, it might be I’m hiding in the office.

Oh, I got you. Shut up. You play frickin Mario Kart. She pointed to the TV and the in the studio. I play Call of Duty where she’s sitting. And so anyways, I got you. Okay. Well, it’s not us to respond this for you, ladies. So whoever wants to go first?

Well, I think today is kind of a good example. I mean, I was kind of so earlier today. We decided, I guess I sort of decided no, we This was I guess there wasn’t a we but so the kids have been asking to get the trampoline up for the last couple of weeks. And Ben has told miracle that he would do it. We’ll do it on Saturday. Well, didn’t happen last Saturday. And didn’t happen this Saturday before that. And both Saturdays were pretty nice day. Yeah. Last

weekend, we started working on a fence and it was warm.

So I mean, it is it is what it is. I’m not like trying to throw him under the bus for not doing it. But then today, it was nice out again, warmish. And she’s like, you know, what would be so great. And I was like, you’re right. There’s no reason. And he said, Well, why do I have to? Why do I have to be the only one to do it? And I said, You don’t? You don’t have to be the only one to do it. And last year, you didn’t do it?

Because my back?

No, that was that was backing it down. Yeah, it was taking it down, not putting down I put the trampoline up for the kids the day before they canceled school for the rest of the year. I’m very glad that I did. So Stefan and I did it. And miracle helped. And so I was like, fine. I’ll text Yvonne and tell him to get his little butt out here and help. And he did. So we start doing it. And he’s sitting in his hammock. I’m like,

well, that would be wrong. Like,

like you in LA last night? I guess I

was in the hammock first before the trampoline activities.

Yes. Oh, at least for that.

Sure. But it doesn’t matter. Like,

sure did not sound.

I don’t know. So he got a little pissy about the whole process. I didn’t ask for his help. So he comes over and starts helping and it wasn’t helpful. kind, I mean, sorry, but it wasn’t. So you were just huffy and mad. And then he’s like, I don’t want to do this right now. We don’t have time for this. This takes hours. Like it doesn’t, we’re almost done. By the time we were putting up the net. And so it really was getting time close to when we needed to leave. And so I just told miracle, we’ll put up the net tomorrow, but the hard part is done. Like getting the mat up is the hardest part. So I guess I just that was how you were a lot before like kind of shore and you would get frustrated with like projects like that. And things and then you kind of stormed off and you’re like going to get gas. I just wanted a few minutes alone and I’m thinking driving to

Cooper’s though.

I’m thinking why because you had the whole house to yourself all night. Last night. You were alone. So I I guess I was kind of confused. I’m like, Yeah, I kind of wanted a nap too. But our kids need this outlet. Like, I guess I just didn’t understand why. Why it ended up like that. So I guess you get a little bit edgy. And then you’re harder to be around and then it’s confusing sometimes.

Why did we schedule this episode?

So I think I think what I know you’re taking this also very well, but I think what happened today is it hasn’t been like that in such a long time. I think it totally threw me off.

Yeah, it threw me off. I was not on my a game today.

I think I think you know, I joked about inviting mine but I think there is going to be a little bit of uncomfortableness talking about where you’ve come from. It’s just it’s just hard and I think

that’s why I wanted some time on the hammock. Just a little bit of a buffer like yeah, clear my mind like No, I was my thought was I’m just gonna take some time before the podcast. Right and for myself, but yes, I could have done that last night. Sure. But I don’t know. I just felt like in that moment, I wanted some time before coming here and that your hammocks your jam.

It is I mean, it’s your jam. I, I totally. It’s like

I intentionally I told the end I texted her. I’m going to my hammock and then the next thing I know, they’re putting up the tramp. Like, what? What the How

is any feeling your peer pressured into going to Hell, even though no one says anything? Hmm. I mean, yeah, I would totally feel the same

as it is on me. Because I did say for the last couple of weeks. Yeah, we’ll get it up. We’ll get it up and up. But I didn’t.

I wasn’t trying to throw you under the bus by saying that. But I’m just like, it just needs to get done. And I wasn’t super thrilled about doing it either. And I’m tired. Like, I didn’t sleep last night.

So in my mind, I’m thinking why can’t we just do this tomorrow,

but it’s not going to get done tomorrow. So just I think somebody just needed to be this darter to make it happen. So,

Megan, how about you?

Yeah, so I was gonna say super quick. Even though this might get uncomfortable. I don’t know, Andy, when you talk to your girlfriend’s about husband frustrations, it’s like, we’re all married to the same person. When ever we’re kind of like, complaining about stuff our husbands do or don’t do our interactions we have with our husbands even good ones, too. Like you find so much camaraderie with people. I don’t know if you guys do the same thing. But I feel like even if this does get a little uncomfortable, if you’re feeling like oh, like a bunch of people, I think you’re gonna find commonality. Yeah, and everything that we say I guarantee people are gonna be listening going, huh? We have a trampoline too.

Well, it’s just like, tick tock. How many tic tocs? You watch? And you’re like, Yeah, exactly. 100% Yes. So right.

Ah, okay for the teary family. When Jason is struggling mentally, he is like the king of detachment. And he sometimes comes down here, suddenly, there’s so much podcast work to do.

There always is. There always

is. But he’ll state sometime during the day, like I have nothing else to do. And then he gets fussy and he’s like, I got work to do, and then I’ll be gone.

I mean, nothing’s typically all the time sensitive other than posting an episode. So yeah, there’s always work to do. But

Right, right. Usually more notorious when we just turn around. And it’s just like, like, the form of him is there, but he’s actually gone. Yeah, it comes down here. The phone is a big distractor for you, and you’re feeling kind of bummed out, you’re on your phone a lot to where we’re talking to you. And we’re getting nothing and then hey, what? I’ve been talking, I’ve been talking to you, I love you so much. And I think overall, I was gonna mention, for as much as you love people, you hate people at the same time. So I love how I like to love on people that I want to love on but I hate everyone else. Like,

I mean, in general, you know what I mean?

And I mean, we all kind of I don’t know how many people are a super fan of big crowds or things like that, but and you’ve talked about this on the show. Yeah. You know, and you and I have talked about how I don’t really invite you with the kids that I when we go do stuff I might throw it out there but I never actually expect that you’re going to come to something with us because you just don’t like people and sometimes it’s okay cuz i don’t i don’t want to see you yell at some old lady who’s like looking at your kids.

That happened like

Cosco like five years ago. I know what you used other shark. That’s why

I appreciate but and then I depending on the level two So Jason is also that guy who was a doorslammer so we had to get a new bedroom door. Well,

it was more than a slam it was a slam and then I kicked it as hard as I could.

Yes, that won’t get bored. The last time he was super frustrated in that gate which is the dumbest gate on the planet. We have a permanent gate at the top. Well we did we did at the top of our stairs and he couldn’t get it over he shot it I don’t know what I

went down and slammed it and it finally got stuck. And then when I went up I couldn’t get it open so I just ripped it out.

Yes. So there’s been many Jason repair drywall repair drywall repairs. Yeah, now never throw anything at me. I’m just gonna put that it’s nothing wolf dangerous. He just gets fussy and slams doors right.

So as you took a drink so is that the end of your Yeah, thing? Yeah. I feel like the next one. We’ve kind of talked about that. Like the telltale signs of how we both struggle. No. Okay, go ahead, Megan.

Fine, like, Yeah, she just gave you a look. It was more,

it was like a big shake.

There’s a big difference, I think between how it’s manifesting itself in one of the telltale signs that

you’re about.

Yeah, that’s true. For between Jason and I, as part of our marriage has a relationship. I always know Jason’s struggling because our physical touch becomes obsolete. where, you know, you walk by and you you know, like run your hand across someone’s back or touch the back you know, whatever those those little touches kind of go away cuz he starts really going inwardly focused when he’s struggling a bunch. And then like sarcastic Jason comes out, which is

I’m never Sorry, my


Yes, I noticed when a lot of it is that joking, but I’m not joking.

That should be a stinger snark cast stick


it’s not fun. Everyone hates it. But yeah, I always know we’re kind of gonna be entering a little bit of a danger zone, Danger Zone when it’s it’s really sarcastic. And the first thing he does when he comes home his complaints about something. And they’re like, oh, a rough day. But

gonna be a rough day. Like, I don’t like that. Like

Jason seems to be struggling today.

Want to throw something at you? I don’t know. That one hit me. I

was just like,

is that what you’re thinking when I like?

But on the flip side, I am sure you can tell when I’m having a rough day and it never enters your mind. Like, oh, this is gonna be rough day for me because she’s struggling.

No, I say I’m gonna be hearing lots of stories about work, or whatever. Like, I love I I will listen to any time you’re struggling mentally, and all that other stuff. I don’t mind those conversations cuz I feel like we fight. Why are you looking at me?

I was scratching my


And no, and I know that there’s gonna be a lot of work stories. And I’m sorry. It’s so hard. And I’m sure mine are too when I’m talking about podcasting, and all that other stuff, I’m sure but it’s just man. It’s tough. So yeah, I do think about that. But I don’t go Oh, it’s gonna be a rough one.

Okay. Sure. You

never thought that never such good. Well, you’re just a good person in general. It’s all it does help. Oh, no, I’m being serious. I’m not kissing her ass like her General, her general asshole. And this is like, weak. Compared to my


good balance.

I need the balance.

I think I think for Ben, I think I think as you just go inward more. So. I mean, you’re kind of an introvert anyways, but it’s your isolate. Like hide in the office with the door closed, hide in the dark. He’s pick on sitting in the dark of the dark. Like, what are you doing in here? It’s so dark in here.

Quietly just sitting in a dark room.

Are you sitting

there he’ll be. He’ll be sitting up or like laying down looking at his phone, whatever.

Just Well, I can see that if you’re actually actively using it.

But it’s always dark. Like, I don’t know, I’ll walk in the living room. He’s in the corner in the dark.

Like facing the corner.

Like, well, in his chairs, like in the corner of the room. like okay, corner and like the corner. Nobody puts bend the corner.

Yeah, Stefan will come up and look for me sometimes. And he you can’t.

He’s also a teenage boy who does not look for Yeah,

well, and boy slash boy slash man.

But yeah, I don’t know. And I notice it more like the dark thing is? I don’t know. I think more so when you’re struggling. I don’t know. But the isolation and hiding in your office?

Yeah. Is that more when you’re not really try to keep the office door open. Now? Like, I don’t need to shut people out. Like I can be in the office. But I don’t have to be like, separate from everybody.

Yeah, and it really it sounds silly. But that door being open. Really is a sign of like, I’m not shutting you off. It really does. I mean, even with the studio door, like if I close that when I’m frustrated, like that’s a sign to be like, Okay. Have some space. Yeah, those kind of things. Anything else?

I think we kind of talked about, I mean, you get a little sometimes get a little edgier, a bit more snippy. Not really snarky, but more snippy and short. I’m like, What? I’m so confused because he’s usually not like that.

So I usually have a pretty long fuse. Yeah, but not when I’m struggling with something. My short gets very or my fuse gets very short.

Yeah. I always can tell when Ben’s either frustrated or mad at me. He doesn’t leave voice messages. It’s only texting.

Ah, that’s almost three quarters of the time anyway that I do that. Yeah,

I guess does

that mean he’s frustrated with you three quarters of the time? That’s bad.

What I heard Oh, it all caps when he’s typing.

know, sometimes it’s just easier. As an introvert, it’s easier to just type something.

Yeah, I get it. It takes a lot of energy, especially if you’re struggling to talk unless you’re angry. Like, for me, if I’m angry, I can talk.

Still, it’s even. I mean, like what though? Even with telegram though, you can even have a do over though, cuz you and I used to get into that a lot where Jason enjoys the day after reconnecting repair. And it’s usually via telegram, and I want it to be face to face. And and that’s an unfair advantage. I feel like when you’re trying to repair something, between the two of you, and you get a do over if it sounds, yeah.

So many messages can be like, Ooh, that sounds very crap, I

just yell at you a lot in my car, and then I’ll leave the message later.

Nice. Car time

is good self talk time.

It is. So I have a question for both of you. Kind of a follow up to that. When you see those signs. Do you say something? Or do you just kind of make a mental note of it? Like, I’m gonna watch out for that.

It kind of depends, I think

depends on the moment. And the moment that you where you are and your day, like mentally, like, you could be having a bad day too. And you’re like, Okay, duly noted, I’m leaving him that alone, like, I’m just gonna go do my thing. Or I’m gonna seek him out and say, Hey, can I help you?

I think it depends on how impactful the behavior is, you know, I find that I say something a lot quicker if you’re being really sarcastic at the dinner table and just kind of sniping at everyone, because Avery is quick to come back on that. Oh, yeah. And she does the same thing where she gets a little snotty, and the two of them are just hitting it back and forth. And like, Okay, I’m all done. I’m all done with this. I hate it. So, depends. Or if you know, I’m having a fine day, and he comes home and something’s wrong. And the first thing out of his mouth is something he doesn’t like, or something’s wrong. And I

I’ve really tried to work on that. That used to be my Mo, I’d come into the house and like if the dishes weren’t done, or I would just find something to bitch about to bench. You know what I mean? Like it would that would be my mo I don’t know why it made me feel better. But then it didn’t it didn’t it set the tone for just a pissy interaction. And so I’ve really tried to not like, do that. Yeah, that’s crap.

Yeah, it’s easy to do, because our house is messy, like all the time? Well, I would

always get frustrated when you like when you were doing when you used to be a nurse, and you’d be like, you have three days off. Like, what the actual hell are you doing? When I’m at work all day? You know,

I am still a nurse. But

you know what? I

twelves? Yes,

yeah. And so that was

we worked through a lot, we had to work through a lot of that young expectations of what the other person should be doing every day.

And honestly, it is a dangerous

shut on me.

I just took a should.

A lot of that is just halves happens with growth in a relationship here. Like because a lot of stuff drives me nuts about my dear wife and i just don’t say anything anymore. Because just like it’s, it’s not going to change. As long as it’s not unhealthy. Well, it’s the same for me too.

It’s just not going to change to deal with your garbage personality. Oh,

it’s not that it’s just like picking up something or the constant like, you throw things in the recycle bin that literally are not recyclable. You’re trying to

save the environment. You

don’t look at the label like label today. I actually set it out but I ended up throwing away You threw the peanuts away. It literally says recycle with a cross through it like this can’t cannot be recycled. The lid can but not

that’s it. I’m giving the recycle plant people something to do like, oh, not another one. And they put it away. It’s fun for them. But

I mean, is this a normal thing to check your recycles before?

If you’re hearing Oh,

well, I know I’m very up on my recycling and I know that stuff that can’t be in can be but like that little peanut tin like you would have peanuts in right. It’s not recyclable.

I didn’t know that. Well, it is.

But it’s not actually metal.

So that was one for two is what you’re saying?

Yes. Yeah. But my point is like as you like, if I could give any advice to a young married couple like you’re gonna find stuff that just pisses you off about the other person and is it really worth it? Trust me, it’s not, don’t fight about it. Try to get past it sooner.

What are you shaking your head for? Depends on the day.

All right, well, it’s become the Jason and beggin show. I forgot your name for a second. I was like Jason and Ben. I’m like, That’s weird.

That would be weird. Yeah.

Name that wasn’t in this room.

Jason and somebody else Jason

and Cindy. First Name popped in my head. Oh, man. She sounds like

a lady.

Well, let’s, uh, let’s bring a happy note into this. Hopefully.

You think Cindy’s an old lady.

Yeah, it’s kind of an old lady. It was Linda. Linda.

Listen to me, Linda. Linda, you listen,

she’s asymmetrical haircut.

Okay, good.

Like the Kate Gosselin

message in the back. Your manager haircut? The Karen. Nice.

How bad is it? If your name is Karen by?

Karen, it’s bad

feel bad? Because like that’s the joke, right? Every time you get into social safety. Hey. Like I would do it. Wow. All right, Ben, bring us back.

All right. Well, we’ve had some, you know, dove into the deep end with the struggles and the things that you see when we’re struggling. I intentionally didn’t lead with this question, but let’s get to it now to maybe repair any ego damage. so far. What progress Have you seen in our mental health over the last year?

Don’t you go for Sandy since Megan and I have been chit chatting?

Sure. Um, how long have you been seeing Shawn? Has it been a year?

It’s been more than a year?

Okay. Yeah,

hasn’t really. It’s been Labor Day of 20.

I guess that’s right. Cuz, yeah. Yeah. So I think over the last year, I think you’ve been doing a whole hell of a lot better. So much better. So much better. I mean, so before you started seeing crazy guy that would hug you time. Whatever. Gosh, I

have a good day, son.

Yeah, that whole thing. I mean, you weren’t even open to going before that. And I would talk to Jason about like, hey, he needs to go to therapy, like, kick his ass pressure him. And he did. And in you were like, No, you know, I don’t know, whatever. And so call me when you need me. Yeah. And then Jason’s pushing you? And I’m like, Oh, he’s like, yeah, I think I do need to find a therapist. Yeah, Yeah, you do. So I just, I see a lot of a lot of growth and a lot of recognition of the shit that you’ve had to deal with, you know, as a child, and whatever, all that stuff. So I feel like you’re doing a really good job like Looking underneath the surface. And it definitely is impacting your day to day functioning. So I see less anxiety and a heck of a lot more confidence, especially when it comes to parenting our daughter. So I think that’s really huge. So I mean, you’re allowed to have one snippy pissy day. I mean, it was like that today. But I’m just saying like, that’s not that’s not the norm anymore.

how frustrated Are you that you had that day to day when we’re going to record live series? Why couldn’t you have a windy day?

Most of his days lately have been I mean, he’s kind of kicking ass and taking names like he’s gone to the gym. How many times in March, like three times a week,

let me check my phone. He sent me a picture.

I’m sure he did a fitness check in. But seriously, though, I mean, this is stuff that, you know, last year, Ben wouldn’t have done. So

I’ve noticed that with him to this, especially in 2021 2021. Just the just the drive and the consistency.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that

that all comes down to you being mentally okay to be able to tackle that consistency. Yeah.

And not, you know, then not getting hung up on the whole work thing with ADT. And that whole bullcrap, like, I don’t know, Ben, a year ago would have still been fighting with that. And, you know, digging us into a bigger hole, maybe I don’t know, you know, I, I’m not sure if you could have made it work. probably could have. But I don’t know. I think you were able to really recognize how not good that was getting for us and for your mental health. Like he would have made

it he would have made it work. It would have worked, but he was like, You know what, screw this shit. Like, oh, this is? This is dumb. I don’t like it. And I’m like, I’m moving on.

Yeah, well, and we were like, We went see him. Like we barely saw him. Yes, he was working so much. And I mean, I remember one of the kids saying, Man, dad’s working so hard. Like, I think it was miracle picked up on that, too. She’s

very, she’s very intuitive. That way. They know I was being paid $0 for those hours.

I know. That’s a tough road man. Once you get in the rhythm of it, and you can have a big savings account so that on those those valleys you can attack it but man,

yeah. Yep, it was. It was time. So

yeah. Well, thank


Yeah, does that does that make up for a little bit better earlier? Well, and I guess the other thing I will say As I feel like, I don’t know how to say this, but I feel like you doing better is helping me do better. Because I’m not like, that I was always worried before. But like, I think the fact that you’ve been able to like really step up with miracle is a huge indicator of how much better you’re doing mentally and just that confidence piece because I feel like before it maybe just wasn’t there. And I think you maybe were in a place where you could recognize the impact that it was having on me. Just the certification that I was feeling, and I think that’s part of my stuff, too, that I’d maybe didn’t recognize it. And I finally was like, I can’t I can’t do this anymore. Like it’s been going. So I just think that’s a really great indicator of where you’re at that you’ve been able to step up like you have and I feel like okay, I can truly like go to work or go wherever and I know all hell isn’t gonna break loose at home anymore. And it hasn’t like it’s done. absolutely incredible.

So put some pretty, very well defined lines in the sand. Miracles not allowed to text Andy when he’s at work. Okay, all the second night. But that’s it like, Andy cannot be parenting from work. No. Or from Arizona. That was my fault. No, yeah.

It’s okay. But I’m I’m glad. As much as that sucked. I’m glad that it happened. Because I feel like we wouldn’t be where we are now. If that had not.

Yeah. Well, if you learn from that stuff, that’s, that’s simple. You’re gonna things are gonna happen. You just have to learn from them. Why do why is the words from Jason, old man, Jason. Oh, man,

what about you?

Well, um, so for you had to take a larger break from therapy because your therapist had a baby. Yeah. And so there was a maternity, it was like six months, right? Yeah, around there that, you know, she had her maternity leave. And then just it was the height of the pandemic. So she just wasn’t ready to come back. And then you hate virtual therapy? Yeah, passion. So

not sponsored by better health.

Not, but you still are making progress. Um, you know, you and I have had some ups and downs, but we’ve been able to talk through them. I’ve seen you being able to kind of pick up and be there for your kids and be there for me when you need to be. And, you know, in light of recent stuff, too, that I think if we rewound a couple years and you were struggling with what you’ve been struggling with the last couple of weeks, like I think it just would have been really rough. But you’ve been doing fine.

And I’ll have to say the last month I have been medicated I have been taking your medication and I and I haven’t talked about it yet because well, she knows about the medication. Sorry, you’re doing what you’re taking what? No, because I my appointment, my follow up over my first follow up and see how I’ve done and so we haven’t talked like how she felt I have been but I have actually noticed a difference. I’ve noticed just less. Leslie like less quick to anger I guess, where something would be frustrating to me and like within two seconds heavy. Like, you know, like the dogs barking. I’ll use an example. I’m sitting on the couch the dog barks. Like Okay, go figure it out and sit down. And then some a kid called me and I’m like, okay, and go do that. And usually by the second one, I’m like, What the hell? Like No, just do it yourself. Or, you know, I mean, not that bad. But whatever it was, I would you know, I’m just slow to react, I guess. So that’s good. Yeah, it’s been it’s been nice. But anyways, I mean,

no, I Yeah, I did. Yeah, I agree. I agree with all those things.

Yeah. So but yeah.

Oh, and with layoff season. Usually. Jason is excited to be done working. And then Christmas is coming. And then usually as soon as Christmas is over. It is a rough go for Jasmine just because he doesn’t have he doesn’t have a schedule. He doesn’t have something to do. He’s listless, even working gigs stuff he it’s usually about February when he is just really struggling and we’ve had conversation week after week about try this try getting on a schedule and he just can’t get out of schedule and can’t do this stuff. We didn’t really

know what was different this year though, cuz I really wasn’t aka on a schedule. I mean, I guess I was until I started the gym because I would like get up, get the kids off. I would take the dogs for a walk. And then I’d start gig work at 11 Yeah. And then I started going to the gym at 830. So that kind of threw that off a little bit.

Only recent. Yeah, that’s true.

I guess I was on a pretty

pretty you did it early and you stuck with it. Yeah. Instead of waiting until February when you hated your whole life and then

and then yeah, and then try to wrap my mind around a schedule and just get frustrated and then say, um, it’s close enough to lawncare I just

gonna ride this out.

Yeah. That’s good to hear because usually I do struggle from like, mid January to mid March. It’s rough and you

pre Buy yourself. Calm, sad lights, this seasonal affective disorder.

The same one. Yeah, I actually Honestly, I used it early when I got it. But then we started like February was so sunny for whatever reason. So I was always outside doing good work. And I was soaking up that sun and I didn’t need my light as much, but I packed it away for the year.

Yeah, December in January, though. I yeah, the thing often,

yeah, I stuck it right here and just let it let it brighten my day. Yep. So where are we going from here? Oh, let’s

see. I feel like we kind of talked about stress pretty well. I guess one thing I’m curious of, because we all know it. There’s no elephant in the room because we deal with it. But Jason and I tend to get an argument sometimes. They have our our silly feud, really. And sometimes they become so few dish that it’s impossible to not notice them. For our wives. So I’m just curious. Can you tell when Jason and I are? Or Ben and Jason are? It’s so weird talking about myself? Like, in the third person? Yeah. It is. Can you tell when we are fighting? There

you go?


Yes. Who? Yes.

Yeah. Okay. Are you any? Any other words? This is talking? So

the question was, can you tell when we’re fighting the answer? Yes. Okay.

seems more stressed. So I think before the last one you guys had unless you’ve had more since the big one. The most recent big one. I can’t recall anything. I didn’t hear about that one. Because it must have been small enough bear with it. That’s good. But what I was gonna say is, I just remember that day and you were beyond stressed. And then I was like, What? What? What is going on? Like, I think you got a little pissy with me about something small. And I was like, what, like what’s happening? And then you kind of were like, well, Jason’s upset because X, Y and Z. And yeah, we’re we’re not doing well or something. And then it kind of came out later. Like he talked to me about it. Because I think you told him to, or something. Yeah, I

don’t know. One point.

Maybe you need to run this by Andy.

I she usually understands me.

Yeah, that’s what I said. Which is

true. But um, yeah, I think that time I could tell I mean, I think I think sometimes if it’s a bad enough one, but maybe the little, I don’t know, the little arguments I don’t always know about,

oh, here’s a question. Who do you think starts most of the fights?

Okay, I feel like it’s mutual.

It’s mutual.

I think it’s mutual, because I think you guys are coming from different places, and you have different personalities. And you guys talk on telegram. And so I know Ben doesn’t always talk with his voice. So sometimes, messages are harder. And I mean, he’s read me some of the things sometimes, and I know this happened a while ago, but I’m like, No, you need to say it this way. And explain why you said that, because he’s going to interpret it as this. And so then he does that. And you’re like, oh, okay, like, so that it’s not. And he’s like, Well, why do I need to do all that noise? I’m like, that’s, that’s how

that’s how the brain was. Because I was like, I was basically saying the same thing. same spirit of the message, but the way Andy had me say it like you were just like, Oh, cool.

What’s a real

I understand you That’s hilarious. The personality thing like I I think we are more like personality aligned and you guys are more. I read so

much into tax like I you cannot hear the tone. And it’s just I immediately go to the the worst case scenario. Yeah, what I read attacks,

defensively when you’re elevated, any kind of elevated, yeah, well, okay. I’ve been listening to a lot of Bernie Brown, it’s no secret in our house. But she talks about defensive listening, and that when you are frustrated with somebody, you’re already it’s just everyone does it. You’re already like poking holes in everything that they’re going to say cuz you’re already defensive before they even start. So like our, our tells, when I come in, I’m like, Hey, can I talk to you for a second? Jason’s like, what? Okay, that’s not exactly how we actually think in his head. He’s like, great. And then as I’m going, if I mix a date up, or a timeframe, like he’s, you know, your first to correct is what everyone does. And she just says, you know, that’s when you should just Call it Nope. We just need to recap and reconvene on this one later because yeah, if you’re defensive listening, you’re just finding ways that that person is wrong. So,

yeah, that’s what our son does.

Oh, my gosh, digression. But yeah, Jason is an external processor a lot, especially with conversations or situations. And what I’ve learned is it’s not external processing for me to help him. It’s just external processing. So I, I almost know, every time probably when you guys are having an argument,

well, there was a time where you would, I mean, I’m gonna say she would go after you a little bit, and I would get defensive for you. Even

the Burning Man in our house. I was not I was literally the rule was I was not allowed to talk about you like

I could vent. But she couldn’t say anything. Because like, it wasn’t being mean to you. But like, if I would get defensive for you, even though I was mad at you,

it was the weirdest thing. So Jace was really frustrated, he would tell me, like he’s reading all the telegrams back and forth. And I get defensive of Jason right. A lot. I do it a lot with his families. I mean, like steam when someone’s not doing right by you, I get defensive. And so I will immediately jump on that train. And then he be like, Why? You don’t know Ben? And I’m like, What is happening? Finally, it happened. There was I think there was a time there. Were you guys were just trying to figure each other out. There were a lot of arguments happening. And I was just constantly on on Jason side. And finally, you’re not allowed. You would not talk to Ben. Ben anymore. So and then he kept telling me like, well, frustrated with Ben today, Mike. Well, I can’t talk about bam. So I don’t know what to tell you.

About that last and how that got resolved.

You couldn’t stop talking about it. So we finally realize

I’m a I’m not an internal

bad that I wouldn’t engage the conversation, but I was not allowed to engage.

I love being a fly on the wall for this one.

Yeah, I mean, it was it was the weirdest thing, like being frustrated with you. But yeah, saying you can’t talk like that to my friend about you.

Know, shut up

shows my best friend. Dammit, leave him alone.

That’s how I know how much you love him. You don’t talk that way about my friend.

Oh my gosh,


or like girls? Well, when they were in their one fight recently, I was like, Man, this is like Middle School. Like what? You know,

the same thing. A 13 year old.

The part is is like I was like, 98% of cause of that fight. Like, sometimes it’s equal. Sometimes it’s 6040. Mostly, I’m on the high end. And he’s on the low. But this last one. Man, I was on that. 100 almost the 100% No,

but you guys, you guys worked through it. And that’s the biggest thing. I mean, you both met halfway. And I told Ben I was like, you’ve invested so much in this like, it would be awful to throw all that.

here’s here’s the thing about friendships like people that are listening might think I don’t have that relationship with my friend. But Ben’s the first person that I’ve actually invested emotionally in in like, all my other friends. I mean, nothing against any of them. But it was all superficial.

It was like, Hey, bro, man, you see that ass or whatever, like you checking

out a girl, or whatever, like not that I wouldn’t say that if Ben and I were hanging out.

gets you in trouble.

But I mean, I’ve invested so much. And so of course there’s going to, it’s our relationships are hard. Marriage is hard. You’re in that you guys are invested in each other, we’re invest each other, I’m invested in a bet. So there’s going to be times where we’re like, this is bullshit. You know what I mean? or whatever, and there’s gonna be Rocky and I’m a hard person to deal with. And I mean, like I said, Ben and I would not be able to be friends from age 22, maybe age 32. For me, I just wasn’t there. And I you would have been like, EFF this guy. Like there’s it’s not worth it. But that’s just my two cents on it.

Well, I think that’s what strengthens any relationship is being different and having different viewpoints and knowing that Ben and I have similar personalities probably means that you’re polar opposite from Jason because Jason and I are polar. If we do any personality tests, we are the personalities that are exact opposites and have the toughest time understanding each other. Oh, great. Marriage is so much fun. But when it comes to teamwork when it comes to working together when it comes to that stuff that brings a lot to the table, but it’s also really hard sometimes especially when Jason I have found that we deal very differently with with stress we deal very differently with anxiety and how it manifests itself in us and so just trying to figure each other out when you just kind of assume your person deals with everything the way you do, right? Like your spouse, or your friend or whatever you just assume like, well, this is how I cope. Yeah, what is wrong with what is wrong with you? Why would I say you’re not talking? Listen to the words coming out of my mouth. And I’m like, Well listen to the tone coming out of your face, right? Like, it’s very, it can be very tough. And I think that’s where you guys that’s always gonna be your struggle, but that’s also going to be your strength at the same time. Hmm.

So before we move on, are you growing a beard?

Just now notice. Well,

I did but are you really grown a beard? ish? Yeah, I

can’t grow Jason beard.

No. Oh,

that was neck. Did

you hear that? That was

swallow the vomit.

It was like, No, no, that was

a walk into businesses with

I know I always say such a great salesman, because if I’m passionate about something, I can sell it but this Yeah,

I mean, so the story with the beard is I have the middle I go stuff in it. No, no. Excuse me. Nobody notices it. I’m sure

but are they did not in your face. Oh, yeah. Oh, I guess in the summer

and then like under here. It’s like, okay, it’s very splotchy, and I’m self conscious about it. Are you? Okay, so I had the the landing strip. Yeah. Oh, T for a while, like 10 years. And then I just felt like I want something different. I’m thinking it.

So what does that about three months.

Three weeks, three weeks. Okay. All right. I even bought like an electric clippers so I can keep it short. Yeah, well, I’ll

let you know the first 90 days suck. Yeah, it’s gonna be itchy. And but after that, once you get a little like, not like this, but even

leg hair in the summer. Or like when you transition from summer to winter? Yeah, it’s gonna be a rough fall, but it’s gonna be fine. Yeah, no winter layer going. Oh, I

just kind of was looking at you. Like he’s got a lot more hair on his face. So glad you’re growing it.

Can I ask you a question? Ben? Would you ever consider wearing like foundation or a cover up?

mask? I’ve done that. But the thing is, I sweat a lot.

That is true.

There’s a lot um, depending on when you did it though. I feel like there’s so many things out there now. I mean, that’s gonna cost you but there’s a lot of products out there that are for people who have like that difference. Why don’t you just get the spray tan? What only in those spots?

No like his whole body.

Do that. Just your face.

The spray tan?

Yeah, that’s the new thing. It’s it’s not what what? I just can’t hear now. Oh,

that’s where I think of with spray tan his friends headphones just took it down. Weird. Well, we can still hear you so watch your mouth.

That’s weird. Anyways. Oh wait, it’s coming back. You could hear me just fine.

Fine. Well, there

is a dog chewed that there

is a Oh yummy. Well, I stopped using this thing because it started leaking somewhere. Oh,

you squeeze so hard.

Yeah, it’s my nervous about the mental health stop is fidget. Yeah,

anyways, that’s weird. That was very odd. But anyways, no the spray Tanner’s more healthy than actually going to a tanning booth I actually did it for a play once at church I was amazing. I did but I think it would it would evenly cover everything that’s

actually not a bad idea that

it would hit up your the other spots. It’s only in the

Yeah, and you do get it on your arm sometimes too right you could just do it all

when your hands too

and you could just in really you can just do you don’t have to go like it wouldn’t be like

your friends episode.

Yeah, yeah, you can slowly work up do it’s not like you’re like you walk in there like this and then you’re like you’ve been in Florida for a month or whatever but that might be something to look at if you’re so self conscious about I didn’t know you were self conscious about it.

I am I I try to come off as it’s not a big deal and I try to especially for miracle light I don’t want to so jittery All right. I don’t want miracle to worry about her appearance so I just tried to play on a dime that’s why confident in it.

But miracle What’s wrong with her? Oh just in general as a like as black living in a white world for sure guys

have she does have some discoloration on her face. Yeah. And so if anybody’s ever noticed that no, it really shows up in the summer.

And I doesn’t like with Ben I see him enough that it’s like it doesn’t even bother me but I don’t know if it was on this podcast. I listened to many and I do too many. But I often people don’t know shit and people pay attention to nothing like you think people are looking at who no one is looking at you. They’re worried about themselves.

Yeah, walking around like when I shaved my goatee. Nobody. Notice

I was really Jason. Jason. What?

What? You didn’t notice when Ben shaved his coat.

I feel really bad. Although no one noticed when I trimmed my beard I trimmed like I noticed it would

have been married to these, like two or three weeks. I

mean, it was like the scraggly best thing ever. And I got a

welcome to a woman’s world where we do stuff to us. And you guys are like, Wait, what? Did you put your hair weird? Why do you look like that? cut my hair. Thanks. Anyway. Wow. Anyway, so

anyway, as we’re wrapping up, I want to kind of just maybe do one more question. Or we can kind of wrap them all together. I mean, one, one of them is how do you think therapy is going? I think we’ve kind of addressed that. And another one is, have you ever felt helpless and trying to help? One each of us in our mental health like where you’re just like, oh my god, I’m going to strangle him? Or I’m like, I don’t know. Or even in a like a queue upset moment, like being helpless.

This doesn’t have to be recent. No, no, for sure.


So I made sure I could talk about this before we started. It was last summer. So when pandemic and we couldn’t do anything, Jason is already in walks a lot, which was always funny, because that was the only time we were ever alone. And besides when you know the kids would go to bed.

Well, we started taking more walks we got Frank.

Well, we start taking walks when we got our Franklin because we had senior citizen dogs who didn’t go and walk Right, right. So to go on walks and and then that was the only time we were ever having to have like adult conversations. And so a lot of them were arguments when Yeah, and then we had to like stop taking walks for a little while and but things were pandemic was hard on everyone. And I started going to weekly therapy because of what I was hearing at work. And I was really struggling with anxiety that I was not talking to Jason about, because I don’t want to worry him that sound familiar. And, and he was struggling with things too. And we were just having a really, really, really rough time. And we had a really giant fight at Millennium Park, which is great. And we were doing a large walk circuit. So I think we had another 15 minute walk.

And we got turned around, we lost. And we tried the GPS and I struggle I’m very good with directions. But I’m not good in three dimensions. Like it’s hard for me to you can’t

you don’t have the

spatial spatial ability show processing, like I can tell you where north is I can say turn north on this and west on that. But like if I get a little turned around, I’m like, Oh shit,

and so so validating.

And when we’re both heightened, I need time to think Yeah, Jason will rapid fire at me. And the more I won’t answer, the more he elevates in. So in a situation like that, where we’re turned around, and he doesn’t know where he is. And I’m just trying to remember like, okay, we came from this way, because I’m also that person that I don’t do north south, I do turn at the grocery store. And so I’m trying to figure it out. Anyways, we got in a very, very large argument, and then had to walk the rest of the way home and Jason r to the car. And then Jason had to walk in front of me because we couldn’t be with each other. But then we came home and then subsequently actually had a real conversation about should we be getting a divorce. And it was a real conversation that we were having about. Maybe we still should. And I think that’s I know, that was the only time the first time we’d ever had that conversation. But that I was gonna say it wasn’t a helpless feeling. It wasn’t like, I don’t know what to do for Jason. I was just like, I just don’t know if this is worth it. At this point for

Well, I actually brought up the divorce. I brought it up because I felt so bad for Megan that I couldn’t give her the like it was an accumulation of since we’ve been married. So it’s like, yeah, that was a kind of an acute fight at the time. But I was just like, I want you to be happy. And if I can’t make you happy, then I’m out. Like because

you’d asked me the question or made the observation you just like I just know, are you happy in our marriage right now? And I couldn’t answer Yes. Because we had been just sitting in this valley and this one had taken a while and it was a lot pandemic related and what we were going through, and we were just sitting in this valley and I just because I had been in therapy, I wasn’t going to hide it anymore. And I was again not not super happy. But what does that mean for us? And so for Jason Mr. Fixit He’s like, I shall fix it by divorcing you. And

that was like my, my attitude. Then I was

thinking like you’re legit. Like remember we have children and house and how’s that logistically going to work? But

at the time, I didn’t care about that because I wanted you happy because I’m like, Oh, you want to be happy? I’m a dick. Okay, then I’ll leave and then you’re happy.

Problem solved.

So that was rough. That was a rough go. That was probably the only time I’ve truly we’ve been in that boat. Yeah.

What about you, Andy?

Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I don’t, I don’t know. I’m trying to think of like a specific instance.

If you don’t have one that’s actually really great. And I

feel terrible. No, she’s a mental health professional. So it kind of helps to be married to one. Yeah,

for sure.

Do therapy on your family? You just kick their butts into going? I don’t know, I think probably a couple years ago, when you decided to get on meds. I think that was really hard. But you’re awesome

now, right? I am awesome.

Cuz he was so freaking anxious about absolutely everything.

And couldn’t do my job. Like, I couldn’t even go to work. Barely, yeah, it

was an intervention.

And I think I think I’d been on and off like that. Like, I think even going back to like, First Baptist and all that crap, like, you were a wreck, and I just didn’t know what to do. So I think I avoided it a lot

of dark days. Because I

was like, I don’t I don’t know what to do. And I can’t sit here and do a puzzle with you all day. Like, seriously, like, I didn’t know what to do. I mean, I’m glad. I’m glad we didn’t drink a lot. None. Because then I’ve been good,

then you do now. Now?

What are you drinking those white claws?

Did you find it was more frustrating? Because you are in a little bit of a mental health field. But then you have like you’re you’re supposed to know, right? Like, you should know how to deal with it.

I should know how to fix them.

Yeah. I feel like I don’t feel like that as much with him. I think I feel like that more with the kids sometimes. And especially like, with miracle when they diagnose her with ADHD. I’m like, How the hell did I not see that? Like, you know, I should know these things. Yeah. So I don’t know that I felt as much that way with him. But then I think moving on from it when he just got on meds, I’m like, okay, so you need to go to therapy, too. And I, you know, I’ve been in therapy for a long time, like, I’ve seen the same therapist for five and a half years and done weekly up until just the last couple of months. So I find value in that. And I think it’s really important. And I would spend a lot of some of my therapy sessions talking about how much you needed to be in therapy and weren’t doing it and how hard that was. So, you know, so now it’s like, oh, you know, he’s he’s doing that. And he’s just, I guess, I think for a while, I felt like I was working on my shit. And growing and you weren’t like I was taking meds. You were taking meds, like okay, so you’re so frickin numb right now. And I guess if that’s what we need to do to get by. But so now I guess I feel like you’re more now that I have it all together? Because I sure don’t. But I know I’ve worked really hard in therapy. The last five years, five and a half years, whatever, maybe almost six, actually this summer it will be which is weird. But

how do you feel about I just this popped in my head? And I know we never get to my story. Yeah. But how do you feel like if Are you comfortable going to therapy your entire life?


do you? Do you see an end game on it?

I you know?

Yes or no. I mean, I think I think I look at it as like a proactive thing for me. I know I have anxiety and it was really bad. Like two summers ago. I mean, I took meds for a little bit. And I was so against doing that for myself.

Somebody I know somebody else that had that struggle to

weird. Weird isn’t so weird. Yeah. So, no, I mean, at this point. I mean, I just started going every other week. So I think Yeah, but I don’t, I don’t want to shut the door on it. Because it’s like, something always comes up. And it’s really nice to have to process it.

Yes. Like, even if things are going good. Sometimes you just like, you know, I need to I need a second set of ears. Yeah, this situation.

And I feel like with me, like, I had a very traumatic growing up, you know, similar probably to you, Jason. And I think that’s my maybe why I relate to you a little bit more. But I didn’t like so I think I’m constantly like throughout my life, there will be things that come up and I get triggered. And so I have to like I I’ll feel like I’ve worked through these things. And then a phase will hit with one of the kids and shit like that, that hit me in a different way than I thought that it would and I thought I thought I’d done this already. And I I remember saying to my therapist, like I’m like this this frickin sucks. Like I thought I already dealt with this and she’s like you did but you’re gonna have to again and again and again. It’s just one of those things that’s gonna keep happening so No, I mean, I don’t see an end game if she retires I’m gonna be screwed. Yeah, so I’m hoping we got a

while still find a good Oh,

I had to start over. I don’t know what to do, but

Well that’s kind of an interesting transition into my conversation how you like get triggered by something things that you’ve worked through and it comes up and come up and you have to deal with it again. And so for the last two

we did so good.

So good to the whole show. Now pull the band This is my nightmare. I actually thought you were swatting a fly like it seemed like you came out of my periphery.

I’ve been like tucking my hands but I’m such a gesture peripheral

peripheral Griffey

peripheral vision. He doesn’t say right? That you just let go love him. Word This is private school at work. How

do I say stuff that you don’t say? Like, you’re probably like, Oh my gosh, I usually call the Yeah, I usually call myself out on it because it doesn’t sound

I’ve given up on periphery. periphery. It’s not a word at all. Yo, Rafi,


periphery all

free anyways. Can you say it? No periphery? Oh, peripheral.

They’re better.

It’s better anyway. gofio.

Okay, talk about you’re wrong. On the

wrong syllable.

Yeah, you two are like both grammar nazis over there. Anyways, so we’ve been talking about I don’t even know where I use that word approach. Like what I was even talking about. You’re talking

about things that you thought of your periphery?

Yeah. The Fly. Sorry. The Fly. Yeah, so we’ve been talking about the the issues. I mean, I don’t even know how to kind of start into this. I don’t remember what I exactly said on the show last time, but I’m gonna keep it vague for for my sisters. But it did come out that one of my sisters is not my dad’s and I did do a paternity test. I am not my dad’s as well. So that’s what I’ve been dealing with the last couple of weeks. I’ve I feel like I’ve talked it to death, like I talked to with my therapist today. I talked to it with Megan and like, just, I guess those two people?

Well, this is the time where we, we need to tell the people who are immediately affected by it. So you have told this story this weekend? I a couple times.

Yeah, I told Avery and nulty. And then my mother in law. And honestly, it doesn’t really change the day to day I brought that up like my dad has not been there for me for forever. And he’s showing that in through this conversation. We’ve texted and he doesn’t want to answer any questions. He says he doesn’t know anything about it. And it’s just sucks. So it brings up all the shit that happened when I was a kid and how he wasn’t there. And guess what the person that was unfaithful? And did these things is dementia filled and impatient. And so she can’t I can’t even like go to her and say, like, Hey, who was? or Why did you do this? Like, what is going on? This is like, I’m 45 and I just find this out. And so it’s just been tough to, to just navigate it. I call it like ping pong, like, I’ll be driving along and it’ll be fine. And then all of a sudden, I’ll be like, I’m gonna drive over and choke him to death and be like, Oh, I’m gonna write a Facebook post. And then I’m gonna be like, oh, cool squirrel. I’m back to work. You know what I mean? Like, it’s literally like that. And and it’s hard. And my sister, one of my sisters almost spilled it, or commute because I wasn’t communicating with any of them. So we’re communicating again, a little bit. Obviously, the one that we don’t, that came back, not the dad. And so that’s been triggering to now that that that she’s been triggering, but like, I think I’m like gaining ground on my mental health. And then then I get a text. And it’s not a bad text. It’s just like, Hey, how’s it going? And I’m just like, you know what I mean? I I’m driving in the studio, y’all cuz I Drive for Work. So unless you’re

driving very aggressively, always you say

every time I swear at people like I’m like, you know, I do this when I drive by myself. Right? Like, I swear people and I’m driving. So that’s it. Yay. Well, there’s

a lot. I mean, I don’t know what else to say. Like, yeah, I think to wrap it up. Yeah, watching from from the outside. It’s and again, as I mentioned before, I’ve been listening to a lot of Rene Brown. I saw a little bit of a little bit of her like a divine intervention because I kind of latched on to her podcast a couple months ago. And so I’ve been making my way through all of her podcasts, which is great, but also has made this whole situation infuriating. Yeah, because there’s a lot of refusal on Jason’s person who kind have raised him. Social dad. So no, that implies that

your legal daddy go


There’s just this, he drew lines very early, very definitively from the beginning of what he would and would not.

Yeah, and I’m not gonna answer any question

not I don’t know anything and it’s in the past and we all just need to move forward. And that was the the first answer we got. And it’s just, it’s watching. It’s like, watching Jason go through the trauma all over again and pisses me off. And just the the realization that there will not be closure but also no assistance in closure which just it’s so hard to watch as, as an adult or a you know, a human being with a heart just to watch like, you watch Jason go to his father was call for go to your father with these this huge in for us, it’s not a life changing, we can call it life altering. It’s not life changing news, because we had already drawn these lines. But just watching that just either resign, I’m not going to be accountable for this. I shouldn’t have to I shouldn’t have to answer your questions. And there we go. Like, I’m not going to help you in any way. There was just nothing. And it was very, it’s been really difficult also, for me not to I actually was out in that neighborhood. I don’t know what I was doing out there. And I was like, do I need to drive by and slash your dad’s tires.

So I want to put it in perspective a little bit with my dad, actually, in my therapy session, I might, I do have empathy for my dad, because he’s actually going through it to like he’s finding out that his kids aren’t his. But he’s also the elder. And sometimes As parents, we suck it out. You have to suck it up and be there for our kids, even though we’re suffering and he’s He’s never done that. He never protected me when I was abused. Yeah. And so I just was hoping in this moment, he could step up and say, I’m sorry that you’re going through like this have some empathy right around it. And he has

been a lot of we’re all dealing sad about they’re

all sad about this.

Okay, but we need to move forward. It’s always we’re all dealing with this, but we need to just move forward. I can’t answer your question. Oh, invalidating. Yeah. And it’s hard to see. Okay, does everything our kids get upset about matter to me? No or not? Does every fight ever getting with her little middle schooler friends matter? No, but you give the gift of listening and letting her pour it out? And then assessing? Is this the time where I give my advice? Is this the time where I’m quiet? But you validate her? Yeah, just say anything would be better than what is happening. And it just I think it also solidifies I think that deep seated a part of you that, you know, for whatever the reason that there was such a detachment that your dad had with you guys, that there is just not going to get better. Like, I don’t think there’s a redeeming.

Well, unfortunately, I actually reached out to him in a group text and wanted to talk to them. And as the days went on, he kept setting these boundaries and everything. And I’m like, in my head, I’m like, Oh, no, I get to set the boundary. Like, this is not your boundary to set, right. And then I haven’t responded back to his last like, ultimatum. And I but I think I’m out. Like, I think I’m just gonna be like, Well,

I think you weren’t out before though.

I was but I still want it. I wanted an opportunity. I actually wanted an opportunity for him to have a win. Yeah, like, I’m like, Let’s sit down. I’m gonna go on with love. I’m going to give him a hug. I’m going to be like, let’s talk about this. This kind of sucks. And then, but then even through his texting has shown that it’s not going to happen, so why bother?

And I think I think that’s the crux of it right there. It’s like you wanted a win. You wanted him to do the right thing. Your dad Yeah. And everybody like that has been wounded by their parents wants that deepen their core, they want their parents to get their shit together, and do the right damn thing for one one time and they never do it. Yeah. And that’s what’s so sucks. Like think like

when you’re an adult? Maybe it’s easier now that we’re all Yeah, your mid 40s he’s almost 70 Yeah, I would think

it is easier if you’ve worked on yourself, but then living the same way your whole life. It’s the same as when you were 20.

Yeah, yeah. Socks. Um, I, I really, I mean, not totally to that exact situation, but the whole piece of just wanting them to do the right thing. And risking like you kind of risked a little bit like putting yourself out there for him to try to do the right thing. And then he didn’t. It’s just, you know, proof of how it always has been and how it always will be and that I don’t want to say the F word, but I won’t. I’ll just be frickin

Stop it out. But another thing through therapy today, some things came up. And some some things. My sister has a photographic memory and has enlightened to me and some things. And so all of a sudden, this is all new shit. Like not just the paternity thing, but just like some other things. And I’m like, okay, and I’m sure it’s gonna be good in the long run, because I’ll be able to work through it. But right now, I’m super frustrated, because I was like, Ah, I’m winning at therapy, you know, I’m like, yep, things are being good. Like, you know, yeah, we have our issues, but like, I’m feeling good. And then it’s just like, Oh, just kidding.

Well, and yes, your sister has a photographic memory and you have no memory. You literally have nothing.

Yeah, I was thinking little tiny

blips before 18. But really, for you it’s it’s nothing. So there’s there’s reasons that that’s not there. And it’s it’s in there somewhere. And you know, we we’ve talked about hoping this is, in the long run, going to be a healing thing for all involved, because there’s spent so much time just feeling like, What is wrong with me? Why can’t he just connect? Why can’t he give a crap about his grandkids? You know, and yeah, watching that over and over? And, yeah, hopefully, long term, we can look back and say, that’s when it turned and I started finally, just healing from some of this,

I think, Oh, sorry.

Oh, go ahead.

I guess I was just gonna add to I think for your sake, I’m really happy that you’ve already done some of the groundwork, though. Oh, yeah. Put up those boundaries. You’re on meds right now. You know, what a therapy like so can you imagine if this was Jason a year ago, that hadn’t done all this work? You guys didn’t have these boundaries, and then found this out? Like, I’m really thankful that you have, it’s almost like you got all this stuff in place. And now it’s like, okay, you were ready for it. But I mean, you’re never really ready. But you’re much more were much more ready than you could have been? 100%. You know what I mean? Yeah, that’s really good. So props to you for even

Yeah, anything, everyone you don’t got as a plan. I don’t know. People say that. It does bother me at times. But like getting on the meds almost a month ago. I’m like, why did I do it now? And not last year? Like I think that played a role. And we’re sure in all this. So yeah,

you’re handling it a lot better than I expected when Ben first told me about it. And I was like, Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So we talked about a lot. I appreciate you guys giving me the opportunity to talk about it. I know, it’s my podcast, whatever. But our podcast, but I didn’t want to overshadow the amazing work that you guys have done with us. And we really appreciate you guys supporting both of us through the podcast through that can get long in the tooth at times. And through just us being you know, dumb man at times. You know what I mean? And struggling with our different things. But you got any closing remarks? I feel like, I feel like you have a lot to say this. I don’t know. Just Just because you have it. It’s just because her and I were talking so much. I don’t want to leave you I want you like to wrap things up. And sometimes you just have a good put a little bow on it. What did you learn today,

Ben? You know, there. One thing I am learning is sometimes there’s just not a bow to but yeah, things. Sometimes things just suck. Yeah, that’s, that’s kind of how it is. And so I want so bad to fix this for you. Or this better for you to put a spin on it.

Like a silver lining. Yeah,

like, I just want something good to come from this for you. And I don’t I don’t have anything.

Yeah. And that’s okay.

I don’t have a bow. I don’t vote for you. I don’t have a bow for the show. I guess. All the thing I on the only thing I do have is just I would say gratefulness for. I mean, I was just thinking as we’re doing this episode, like how many husbands and wives sit down and have talks like

about their mental health? Yeah,

like it’s kind of a thing. This

has just been? I it’s been it can be a pain in the ass. Oh, yeah, it can. But man, I’ve grown so much from this show, just in general, just having someone to talk to.

It’s just I don’t know, I’m super grateful for sure. And, you know, I was thinking today about the things people do when they go viral. And it’s like, people, like they have a fit in public and they go viral, you know, but then you have shows like us where we put our heart and soul and we really are just genuine with each other. It’s sad to me that that’s not sexy. And that won’t ever go viral. No. And like our ride share podcast has a better chance of going viral than the view. And I guess I’m just frustrated by that. Because I want the show to grow and I want more people to experience what we experienced here. But then I think about the people like Mike and Larry and Matt, and the gal in the east side of the country who started going to therapy because she heard our show, right? Like, people are talking about us in random places on Facebook and it’s just like, okay, we may not be viral may not have 1000s of listeners, but what we’re doing here really does matter. So

that being said, this is gonna be the last episode.

So that’s all I have to say in closing is this just this episode is a reflection of our heart and why we do this and I don’t really have a bone to put on it. But thanks everybody for listening. Like I said, He’s great at that.

He says he’s like, he doesn’t have a bowl, but like that was a perfect ending. So thanks, guys for listening to threads podcasts. We’ll see in a week.

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