Transcription for Episode 114

Welcome to threads podcast life unfiltered. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. As I said earlier that the title is says that it’s all Ben’s fault, but it’s not Ben’s fault. That’s not going to be the focus tonight, hopefully. But not, but okay. But thank you, everybody. Before we jump into kind of our housekeeping Ben’s going to tell any new listener, what threads podcasts life unfiltered is all about. And then, yeah, we’ll do some housekeeping.

All right. threads, podcast life unfiltered, you may be new to the show, thanks to our new friend Kate, musing. And if that’s the case, thanks for stopping by Kate was a great guest. And wherever you came from, if you’re new to the show, thanks for being here. This is a place where we talk about faith, mental health and uncomfortable conversations. It’s a space where it’s okay to have those tough conversations about things that kind of make you feel a little queasy inside, sometimes. This is a place where we can get away from the Facebook fake and be real and honest and have authentic, meaningful conversations, those things seem to be missing in our world, especially in the world of COVID, where so many of us are just at home, and alone and isolated. So hopefully, this becomes a space that can be meaningful to you, as you listen. And our challenge, as always, is to help you have this same type of conversation with your people. And that is what the threads podcast is all about. And as you can see, we’re in studio, we are live streaming, I realized I just scratched like, not my butt, but kind of the upper butt. And that’s on camera. Cuz usually

I have just this camera in front of me, and they only can see me from the chest.

Alrighty, then, dude. All right,

we’re hitting it all. Yeah, we’re back in studio, which again, I’m very, very happy for because just the chemistry is just so much better when we’re looking at each other longingly. So, but before we this is going to be our personal format. Before we do that, just talk about buy me a coffee. What is that. So if you want to support the threads podcast, which we would really appreciate, you can buy us a coffee once a month, or buy both of us a coffee or you can sign up for a membership, where you pay a certain amount every month, which is 10 bucks, and you get extra perks like a private group, you can talk to us and just be comfortable and vulnerable and not feel judged in a group with us. And there’s a bunch of other stuff. But if you go to buy me a coffee comm slash threads podcast, you can check out all the perks with that. We really appreciate anyone that supports us at any time. It’s it truly is amazing when that happens. And also, we have a newsletter. It’s coming out February 1. Ideally, I think it will that is Monday, Ben Ben’s confident I’m the one putting together I I’m halfway done with it. But I also have a podcast edit and we’re gonna snow come here to help. I know you are I know you’re. So that’s our goal is to get that out for February 1. So if you go to threads and click on newsletter, put in your email address. And you’ll get all the comings and goings of threads, podcasts, what’s going on episode recaps, blogs, those kind of things. And we’d appreciate if you signed up for that.

Yes, your support really means the world to us. We had one come through and it just felt really good to know that this person cared about us enough to buy us a coffee. Yes. So go check out buy me a slash threads podcast. Before we jump into our personal format episode tonight. I just wanted to take a couple of minutes just to reflect on a last few episodes. They’re all pretty loaded. Three weeks ago, we talked about Trump in the capital craziness. Two weeks ago, we talked about anxiety. And last week we talked about gluttony and physical and mental health. So I’m just curious what stands out to you about any of those episodes? Is there anything kind of been bouncing through your head? Or have you just kind of moved on from them?

You know, that anxiety on was really good because I added the podcast, so I got to listen back to that. And it was it was solid. Like I really enjoyed our conversation even though I spoke. I mean I was part of the conversation, but I think it was impactful. I I got a little bit of feedback from my wife, of course, and another listener said that they really enjoyed listening to that episode. And do I know this other listener?

I’m sure I do. You do. Okay. I was just wondering, maybe it was another No, it was Mike. Hi Mike. Thanks for being our biggest Man, we like your podcast.

Yeah, you can check Mike’s podcasts out. It’s called. We started him on a pocket while he did it all the work, but we encouraged him. Why did the first episode Oh, did you just write the skeptical pastor podcast? So he just kind of talks about past three things. I haven’t listened to about doubts. Really?

Yeah, like big doubts and unpacking them and pointing out that it’s okay to have doubt. Right. Doubt makes a strong faith. Yeah. So it was really good. first episode. Yeah, I was.

Yeah. What about you with the other those three?

So I have to say, I knew nothing about Kate going into the interview last week he either we really were flying blind. Did she reach out to us? Or do we reach out to her I reached out to her. Okay. Not that it really matters not. She was a different. I don’t think we’ve had anybody quite like her on our show before. And that’s not a bad thing. I’m not saying you know, good or bad. It’s just, it was different. Yeah. And she made some really good points about how the church doesn’t speak up about things like gluttony, and we talked about all the church potlucks and everything else. And then ironically, after saying that, I’ve never heard gluttony talked about in a church service. Last Sunday, like the next day after, or no, couple days after we recorded guess what the sermon was about at church. It was about gluttony. I it was crazy. So just a very timely message. You know, everybody tends to be focused on their new year’s resolutions and everything else. So to have a conversation with a health coach, it was a little bit stretching me out of my comfort zone, and she was intense. I think that’s a good word for Oh, really,

You don’t think so? intense will can kind of come across as a negative connotation?

Not negatively.

Just energetic?

Yes. There we go. energetic. Yeah. She was very passionate, as well. Yeah. So it was a good episode.

Did you like how I challenged her a little bit on stuff?

It made me really uncomfortable. Yeah, honest. Jason’s just like poking like, Well, what about? Well, actually, or Well, what about?

Because? To me, it

came off a little. A little churchy. And, yeah, I often think about people who could benefit from her services that aren’t religious. Right? And I think how are you, you know, not alienating someone. And again, she and I, and I said that in the podcast, she’s Welcome to do anything she wants. That’s the great part of living in this country is that we can do that. But I just wanted to challenge her a little bit and be like, so what and I think she did fine with it.

She did. She rolled with the punches. I was a little I was nervous, but I didn’t have to be nervous.

No, no, I was. I mean, we always treat our guests with respect, but I felt it I just felt the spirit movie and be like, No, I want to I want to ask her about this. I want to see where she stands and where she lies. So it was good. She your beard manicured. Finally, oh my gosh,

it’s been two weeks. And

no one has said anything. Like I know when we’re on virtual stuff. It’s a little different. But yeah, I got like this much coming weeks. It’s been that long. Yeah, I’ve

seen you since the last two podcasts. Oh,

yeah. Yesterday, and I think it’s just cuz it’s it. Again, we talked about the telehealth and all that it’s not as intimate and now that you’re like staring right at me you’re like, Oh, yeah, it’s so funny. No one said anything. I get so t so bad how a homeless at lunch, but I finally had somebody just chop it off. So no, thank you for noticing Ben.

You’re welcome.

So before we jump into our personal update, we’re gonna do some icebreakers and then reached out to three of our pretty active listeners and just asked some, you know, what would be a good icebreaker question and First off is Matt fill pot and he says, I don’t know what.

Ah, it’s like, like this might be a doozy.

Okay, thank you. This is something I’ve kind of pondered for the last week last week. Donald Duck pondered the last the past week I was screwed it up again. It’s deep. What’s the future of democracy in this country? This comes to mind because living in West Michigan, it feels to me like there’s a number of people and politicians who are not grounded in reality, aka still arguing election conspiracy theories. How are things supposed to move forward if there’s still this crap going on?


I’ll let you respond. First man,

what’s the future of democracy in this country? I would hope that the future is bright. And that current leadership steers us towards a brighter democracy. But there is definitely a big question mark in my heart to, you know, seeing all of the people who are calling themselves patriots, and they feel like they’re fighting for this cause of overturning the election results, which have been certified and ratified. And like, we have a new president now. It’s just wild to me that people are so committed to that idea. And so while I want the future of our democracy to be bright, I feel like there’s people holding it back. And that’s really, it’s hard to understand. I’m with, I’m with Matt on that. But I saw in my neighborhood, well, that’s a loose term within a mile radius of my house. There is a home with a Trump sign in the front yard, like but it’s a big banner, like, you can see it from several houses away, it’s large. And surrounding this banner are tiki torches that stay lit all night, even after the election. So somebody is such a strong supporter, that he goes out every night and lights his torches to illuminate his Trump sign. And it’s like, we have a new president. Why? So? Yeah, I don’t get it. I mean, how are we supposed to move forward? If there’s still this crap going on? What do we do? Like? I don’t know. I don’t have a good answer for there.

Here’s kind of a weird thing I thought of what if Christians did that with Jesus? Like, how, you know, I mean, we’re, I look at like, it’s like, almost like a cult like, and they’re, like, Trump’s their God. But


I think it would be cool. If someone I mean, I don’t know, like, not a statue of Jesus. I’m trying to think of what would be the equivalent, but it’s almost like they’re worshipping that guy. Like,

I mean, it’s really weird.

Yeah, even in our neighborhood, there’s still some Trump signs up and it’s like, whatever, dude, like, you know what? Oh, you know, it just popped in my head. Oh, boy. You have people that when you drive around at night have blue lights in there. And they’re like, you know, their, their, their outside lights, like their porch lights?

I think so.

I think that’s a Trump thing. I think it’s support the police, isn’t it? Oh, mate. Oh, okay. Maybe, maybe it’s something like that. But if when I walk at night, there’s tons of houses that have these blue lights instead of like, regular lights, and I thought it weird. I thought it was a Trump thing. But

I may be wrong. I don’t know. But

yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I

think things will settle down.

Will they when

people get tired of it. It’s still new. I hope so. It’s It’s only been nine days since he’s been in office. So you know, in one. This is kind of a weird, like perspective, though. In one side, I’m glad I kind of glad things got shook up a little bit. Like I I didn’t vote for Trump. But I was glad that there wasn’t a politician in the White House. And I had high hopes that this was going to shake things up a little bit.

It shook things up.

Well, the wrong way. Yeah. But yeah, it turned into a disaster. I don’t know. I think it will. I think it’ll calm down.

I hope so.

I don’t really have a good answer for it either. Like Yeah, just kind of like just done with everything.

I want to be optimistic about it. Like, I legit want to believe that better days are ahead, but I don’t I don’t know. I just don’t feel like I can authentically say that. It’s gonna be so much better. Well, it was.

It was so hard the last month Yeah, like it was the worst the last month. Oh, yeah. So and let’s just move on from that one. Mike. vandrie GameStop stock and now. Okay, I’m reading this as it was. The dogs are running upstairs GameStop stock and now blocking people from doing it and why we keep protecting the rich and the privilege.

So you know what’s going on with games? Yeah,

but just the way it was written GameStop stock and now blocking people from doing it. Hold on one second.

The doggies are wild.

We are actually going to have someone that is in the financial field on I’m going to interview him and it is a friend. And I just can’t believe what’s going on. I love it. Yeah, I absolutely love it. Like you love that.

They’re now being blocked. No. Okay.

I love that the Wall Street building arrows are like feeling the pinch. It’s just always nice for the common folk to get one up on it. Yeah. Now whatever, whatever the hedge funds are doing is legal. It’s not illegal. No, but it just sucks that they have all the wealth and they are able to do that and make a ton of money on it.

Yeah. So some of those hedge funds have gone bankrupt over this already. Yeah. And that’s why Robin Hood the app. I think that’s what it’s called. Yeah, that’s why they banned them. banned people from buying that stock, which is bullcrap. Yeah. That’s, that’s called illegal. Yeah, that is 100%. illegal.

I don’t know if it’s illegal or just bad business practices? I I’m not sure is it? Is it illegal?

I don’t think you can restrict access to stocks that you like you’re no other app and buy them right. But why? But why should or how does Robin Hood even have access to turning them on and off?

Well, because they run they know they have access to their app. Oh, my God, those dogs. I’m telling you, I’m gonna lose my mind, y’all. I don’t know what’s going on up there. But Robin Hood has access to their own app. They just shut it off on their end. Like I could go to stash I use stash I couldn’t write it. So I think Robin Hood in general, I read up a little bit about it. And apparently their biggest investor is one of those billionaire hedge funds they own 35%. So they’re just trying to help protecting their own


yes. And Robin Hood have to pay all that, to like, that’s part of so it’s really confusing. And that’s why I want to have my friend on to talk about it. And it’s uncomfortable. Like it kind of fits that categor category of uncomfortable counter surgeons.

But I love the power of the people aspect of it. I do too, like just standing up to the man like Wall Street has become this bear and people are standing up to it.

You know, somebody I was listening to xanes podcast and he did it had someone to explain to what those Reddit users are doing is not investing. It’s gambling. It’s kind of like bubble that bright. So they’re playing with fire and some some people are gonna walk away millionaires and some people are gonna walk away broke. Yeah. And it’s just, it is what it is. So it’s way over our pay grade at Siri fires like knowing exactly what’s going on,

but nice. So we’ll we’ll dive more deeply into that one in an upcoming episode, right. But then our listener Joe Pelourinho, who just always seems to be smiling, or just in general happy state of mind. Like

I need to see Joe snap, like get mad at somebody.

I don’t think he can. I don’t think he has that ability. But every time I talk to him, he’s just encouraging, inspiring, uplifting. And of course, when I asked him, tell me something we should talk about on threads. He says, what are the three top things on your bucket list?

Yeah, before I go into that his brother Mike is a huge supporter of his own show. And they’re all nice like the Pellegrino family like it just I don’t know, good parenting

must be three things.

I don’t ever think about this lightly.

No. Do you think about a bucket list? Like occasionally like

what you want to do before you like,

Oh, yeah, bucket, right. I want to go to somewhere tropical. But then I don’t because it’s hot. And I don’t do well and eat

you know, you know, Megan is not a huge fan of heat either. But we we’ve done one tropical vacation and it was so worth it. Oh, yeah. There’s umbrellas. You can sit under the umbrella and you drink hammocks and hammocks. Like, you can stay cool.

I’ll make it work. So that’s one of them. Let’s see another one on the bucket. I want to go skydiving sometime.


I think it’d be enjoyable.

I saw a skydiving incident on Tic Tac the other day. I don’t know what happened. But people were flying out of the plane and it wasn’t like scheduled. You know, it doesn’t frighten you at all.

No, I’m not really. It takes a lot to really scare me. I think

it’s not the height thing to me. It’s just jumping out of a perfectly good airplane to possible shoots that will not work,

right? No. I’ve taken risks in my life many many many many times. And it’s turned out in my favor so far. So I think it’d be okay.

Yeah, I don’t really have anything like it’s really crazy. I guess. I guess one thing would be we want to retire to Florida. Now.

I want bucket list.

Yeah. I mean, we want to be snowbirds. So we want to be like here till Christmas and then Christmas. We’re here till March. That way we get the season change but still like we don’t have to Like right now, you know today I walked the dogs this morning and it was 16 degrees 16

I took Ollie for a walk yesterday and he just outright stopped. Really? He’s like, I’m done. Wow. Cuz he stepped in some slush and it was cold. And then he just stood there and shaking. He’s like, Oh,

yeah, did you didn’t carry him back? Did you?

I didn’t, but my wife was with me on this walk. So of course, she scooped him up, and it’s okay. Oh, my dear, I would have just told him to keep going.

Yeah, like, he’s, he’ll be fine. Just he’s on the leash. You can drag them for a little bit. So, yeah, so I think that would be kind of my main goal in life.

And then last on mine is I would just like to be able to pass on some sort of a financial legacy blessing to my kids. Yeah.

Yeah, that’s huge. Yeah. Because you can’t take it with you. Exactly. Yeah,

it almost makes me think about cuz someone in Michigan won the billion dollar saw that I’m like, Can you imagine how much money you would give away? Like, you know, it’d be really fun is to have that money. And just be one of those like, angels that swoops in like this family, like they lose their house. And let’s say they don’t have insurance. And you’re like, Here’s to I gotcha. But completely like on the DL, like you just swoop in and like, all sudden, they have $200,000 in their GoFundMe. You’re like, Huh, like and just to know that you can do that. Like, I love giving so much. I love I didn’t do it this year because of COVID. But usually we go out to dinner around Christmas, and we usually tip like, as long as the service was good. We usually tip an insane amount of money. And just because it feels good to like, Oh, yeah, pretty happy. I’d much rather give than receive, which is shocking for me. I know, people. But um, yeah, I don’t have three things. I’ll be honest with you.

That’s all right. All right. Anything else? Nope. Cool. Thanks,

guys for that.

Yeah, that was fun. We’ll jump into our personal update. And I just can’t wait to talk about the fight that I apparently lost. Well, why don’t

you Why don’t you do your your your little mean? Yeah, action first, and then we’ll jump into that.

Yeah. So this past Sunday, I was asked to help lead a three hour prayer event virtually. And this is something that I’ve done in the past, not virtually, but in person. So the thought of doing a virtually, I was kind of intrigued was like, well, I’ve got the setup for it, I can make it happen. Sure. kind of went into it with an attitude of, I have no idea what to expect. But okay, I’ll help with this. So it was me and another gal from my church. And we were the hosts in a zoom prayer room. And from six until nine, we prayed for every person in the church by name. We prayed for pastors, we prayed for all the different ministries in the church, we had breaks where we listened to a worship song. And it was amazing to me how quickly time passed, like three hours didn’t feel like three hours. Hmm. And there were I think six of us total in the room. And we just took turns praying at our computers, which was a little awkward. But it was really powerful. Like, wow, and I’ll get more into this possibly during our faith update if we make it that far tonight. But one crazy thing that happened that was super meaningful. One of our pastors was also in the room with us. And as we’re praying for people that we didn’t know, we would just say things like, God, I don’t know this person, but we I just pray that you would do that law. Like, for me, there were a couple of them that I said, I just pray that you would provide financially for them in the season, and not having any idea what they were going through. I feel like I kept my prayer super generic, but afterwards, Pastor Christie messaged me and she was like, I have to tell you several of the people that you prayed for you had no idea who they are, what they’re going through. But what you prayed is spot on exactly what they need. Hmm. And I was just like, Wait, really? So yeah, that was like weird.

Did you have like a weird goose bump moment? Well,


I did. And I’m and I’m just having I still have a hard time with it because I feel like maybe my prayers were just so super generic. They could have applied to anybody but apparently not apparently the things I prayed for. Were exactly what they needed. Yeah, and I’m super spooked by it To be honest, are you? Well, that’s the Holy Spirit, bro. Right. But I just have seen so much misuse of that kind of thing. And well,

I mean, isn’t that weird that you’re feeling weird about it? Because the misuse of it? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, instead of just embracing what happened, you’re like feeling weird about it. I totally


weird. disappointing. Now, not for you like not i’m not disappointed in you, but just disappointed in general.

Yeah. Like, it was something it was so weird that I spoke to my therapist about it. I was like,

What did he say?

Well, we of course, I’ll get into that my mental health update. But jumping the gun? No. But it was it was a really weird thing. And we did unpack why it’s so weird for me. And it’s just very much, you know, it’s, it goes. It goes back to my experiences with I guess, the negative side of all of that. Yeah. craziness. So yeah. But it was a good conversation that I had with him. And he’s really good about making sure that I don’t feel him pressuring me one way or the other. They’ll say things like, I’m not trying to get you to see things this way. But let’s just put it on the table and talk about it. Right. And it’s super helpful.

So well, nice job on that. The prayer thing. I mean, it’s, that’s an extrovert job. It was and you’re an introvert.

I was so done.

When you’re done three hours.

What’s cool, though, is this went on for 12 hours. I was just part of it for the first three. Okay. They call that nightwatch. And so from six to nine, it was me and my co host, Nikki, and then nine to midnight was a different couple that hosted midnight to three than three to six. Someone

did it like overnights Yeah.

Wow. Megan do weird,

I think was on one of the late night shifts. Wow. So yeah, for a period of 12 hours. So people could just jump into it when they wanted to. Very cool.

Yeah, it was. It was really something that was pretty powerful.

Yeah. Especially since you haven’t really been going to that church very long. Yeah. And not really in person very long. Like you kind of started and then COVID happen. Exactly.

It started in the midst of COVID.

Yeah, that’s right. Because it was right. It was the summer. Was it right around George Floyd?

Yep. That’s when we got to do this. Because our church. I mentioned this on the George Floyd episode, but our pastors served on the, like the security team for the rally that happen. They stood between the protesters and the police. Keep the peace. Like that is exactly where Christian should be. Yeah. So yeah. When we saw that going down, we were like, Alright, we’re doing this. We had been talking about it for months. Kind of rip the band aid off and just

yeah, made the switch. Nice. So. So let’s talk about the fight. The fight that almost ended the podcast,

and Mike. Oh, yeah.

What, what’s going on here?

I might have told Mike, I didn’t go into details, but I just said, because he would. He was messaging us so much when we were in this fight phase. Like he was in that Facebook thread, just pretty regularly talking. I didn’t respond to any of it, and neither did I. And so finally, I private messaged him, and I said, this is probably not the best time to conversation about threads. We’re just going through it right now. So his first question this morning was, what was it like? Going through that? So you’re in essence, answering Mike’s question.

He his first question to you like privately?

No, like when I asked him something to talk about. That was his first suggest, oh, they needed GameStop. Okay.

Huh? See, this is why like, remember when we had that meeting with Hey guys, and we talked about talking about? Like, I feel bad because like, Mike is your friend. And he should be a person you go to but now he’s my friend. So it’s almost like you’re talking behind my back.

But I didn’t give him any detail. Right, right. Like I would with our partner. We

need this we need to stop having people be part of our podcast live and like just our friends. Like this is a friend He’s not interested in podcasting. I’m not gonna we’re just friends.

Right? It just makes everything so complicated. Oh, but so yes, I told Mike things are a little rocky. Yeah.


I’ll try to remember. So I go through bouts of inspiration. And as some of you may or may not know, Ben and I are doing threads. I do another podcast with Jesper. And then we have a media company. And we help people start podcasts and like Mike, like Mike. So we’ve been all working together as business partners as hosts as friends and it can be challenging. And so every once a while they, you know, I get a wild hair and I want to like push this company forward, and, and I have more drive than the other guys. And that’s okay. It’s not a cut on anybody. It’s just, that’s just how it is.

And let’s be real in this season. Your Employment looks worlds different from ours. They might have more time.

I have a lot more time. I only really work about six hours a day. Yeah. So yeah. So basically, I was inspired and I send this long message. It was like four or five minutes in a group, a telegram group. Oh, by the way, we’ve been in telegram for like, four years. I know. So when you hear the word telegram, we are not right wing. Yeah, there’s a good talk. Yeah, a long time

about that. But we don’t use telegram to support right wing efforts. We don’t on telegram for years and years long before it became a thing. So basically,

I send this long message on telegram. I don’t feel comfortable with it when I release and then Ben immediately, it was basically like, I want to grow the business. I want to start moving forward immediately, Ben, without any without any processing messaged me personally says, Hey, I don’t have any time. Bah, bah, bah, great message. I appreciate him nipping it when he did. But it really took me by surprise. And it very frustrated me. So as soon as I listened to Ben’s message, I went into the main group and I deleted the message. And our partner yester had not heard it yet.

Which I was unaware of. I didn’t know right, that you went in and deleted the telegram message. Right?

So Ben then goes in messages. Yes. PR and says, you know, what do you think? I don’t know what you said. What did you say?

I think I was just asking, okay, so in this message, if I want to say and be nice as I snow to say

it, I mean, it will roll over it.

I kind of called out Jasper a little bit. I know. And that’s why I dumped it and not me. And so I felt like I should be called out to but I wasn’t. So then I messaged Jason, like, Hi, here’s where I’m at. You didn’t mention me and your message. But here’s what I think. And then after sending that I hopped into Jasper and I just said, Hey, I don’t know if you heard the message, but just want to make sure you’re okay. Like That was my concern as a friend.

And you see why I was frustrated where I didn’t say anything about you in that message like not and then you’re like, Hey, I don’t have any time. I’m like, Bro, I didn’t ask you to do anything. I felt

like I was being included. I don’t know. I felt like it was passive aggressively including me. Oh, really? That’s kind of how I took it. Even though you didn’t call me out by name.

Yeah, I mean, it was more of a frustration of some of the things that Gaspar had been doing that kind of just developed in that message. And then after I got your feedback, I was like, You know what, you know how when you leave a message you like, think it’s Yeah, but then so I panicked because I didn’t want to upset Yes. Or like, oh, maybe I was too hard on Yes. For. So okay, so. Oh, okay, so Ben messes Yes. Or I don’t know that this has all happened in like 10 minutes by the way. Five

minutes, maybe five minutes.

Then Yes. For messaged me. Like, Hey, man, what’s going on? just heard some things blah, blah, blah. me like, what? And I was like, I lost it.


I lost it.


I’ll agree with that. And I I messaged Ben back and if I get this stuff out of order, I messaged him back and I was like, I basically told him to eff off. And I said, You’re what I say your ultimate betrayal. Yeah, your betrayal and blah, blah, match something. And I went hard.

And I just kind of listen to it and didn’t say anything.

No, no, you did not right away.

Like I waited 24 hours before. Yeah, was it? Yeah, I

said that to you.

I go back and show you but I can’t.

Well, we’ll get to that point. Dammit.

Yeah, it was 24 hours. Okay, it was 10 o’clock ish. The day you sent it and then I didn’t respond until 10 o’clock the next morning.

Well anyways, so that happened. And then you’re gonna have to fill in the deets after that. Because it gets a little weird to get a got real weird.

That’s so weird. So 24 hours go by. And I was trying to give Jason some time and space to cool off. And I didn’t want to add fuel to his fire. So I just let the time pass. And then I reached out about threads because I was like, Are we still on for tonight? Or what’s going on? Yeah. And he was basically still.

Yeah, I said no. And I don’t really care at the moment.

Yeah. passive aggressive as possible. Yeah. And then I was like, oh, Kay. And then I didn’t quite know how to respond. And I don’t think I did for a little while.

No, I went back and forth. And he kept saying, I don’t know what you want me to do. And I kept saying, Well, if you don’t know what you did, then I can’t help you.

Yeah, that kind of

went back and forth. And I just kept getting angrier and angrier.

And I didn’t, I legit, was still trying to figure out. Because at one point, you said, You owe me an apology. Yeah. And I’m thinking, whoa, yeah. And

then when you said that to me, after I said that, that’s when I may have deleted the chat. So I’m sure you did so and telegram, basically, it tracks all your messages, your voice messages and everything. It’s a great app. It really is like, you can search for stuff that two years old, find it? It’s amazing. Well, I deleted it. And I said, Are you sure you want to delete it? And I was so angry, and it says it’ll delete for you and bad. I was like, Yes. And then it counted down 5432. And then at two, I’m like, it won’t really Delete on his side, one, zero deleted, and it deleted all our history, everything, everything everything.

Pictures, messages, links, passwords, anything that we had chatted about.

So that was pretty low point.


I can say and I feel really bad about it. Not as bad as when I told you to eff off because I. So we ended up How did we end up like, I don’t know. It was like another 12 hours. We didn’t talk and then I Oh, I had therapy. Yeah. And then I circled back to you and said, I asked up. Yeah. My therapist didn’t tell me that. I just had some clarity. And then Ben and I talked and

I will own the fact that I went to Casper and I just checked in, but it’s not that I was snitching. Right. I was just genuinely concerned. Like, Hey, how are you? Yeah, thinking he had heard the message. And I assumed you saw that I

deleted it. So you were just being shitty? No. Hi.

If I had known you deleted the message, I would have helped you keep it from Yes, forever. Yeah.

And it’s not like we’re trying to I just didn’t, I was like, you know what bands have? If Ben has a problem with this, I didn’t even mention him yesterday is really good. And I’m like, why cause the pain? Like, I’m, I’m going to delete it. Because why? Cause the pain I asked up like I this is my chance, because I looked, and it said you were online. So I just assumed you saw me delete. It doesn’t mean you were in that chat. Oh, it was just online, or you were just online was probably talking with the Esper.

Yeah. So it just got weird. And maybe not even weird is the right word it?

Well, communication was broken. Yeah. And if we would have, if I could have seen pass read, and you have and we had time to talk, that I think it would have been solved. And once you explained it a little bit more, and I could reflect on that, I think it would have been different. And just for the record, as we’re recording, I did tell Ben to eff off and it was a hard fit it was and I hurt his feelings, and I disrespected them. And I appreciate you telling me that and again, I’m sorry for doing that. That was one of the the demons in my life with with my broken brain. I’m not using as an excuse.

No, but I’m excuse explains things.

Yeah. And so one thing we decided and one kind of good thing is like, I think when when I said when we are struggling, we need to visually FaceTime like, we need to like have a phone call not this telegram bullshit. Like I want to see your face and I know it’s a little uncomfortable for Ben, but I think it’ll be helpful. We haven’t had to use it since then. Just good. But I seriously thought about Were you worried that I was gonna like go into pod bean and like, delete them? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Or you can go

in and change the password wasn’t my place. Yeah.

I mean, we both own it. So it’s it is your place to protect your and Yeah,

well, I just wasn’t gonna go there. But in conversations with my wife,

yeah, we talked with our wife course we tell you our wives. Everything.

Yeah. I think I’m not sure we’re gonna survive this one. Yeah, I was like I this might be it for threads. And what’s so disappointing to me is I

it was all my fault. Like, I mean, you had a little playing when we were kind of fighting you were kind of sarcastic and a little snarky and whatever, but it was almost all my fault. And it just like it that actually frustrates me more.

What’s interesting is it hurts me to hear you say that.

Does it? Like,

I just wish he hurts the right word.

Well, I just wish you had skin in the game like in the fight like you’re

not trying to get did I? And I just I feel bad saying I didn’t do anything. Like, how messed up is that? Well, the

funny part is is like when you did send that initial message I was while I was frustrated with you. I wasn’t at the anger yet because I hadn’t deleted the message. I in my head. I was like, I’m kind of proud of him. He’s just like, Hey, this is where I’m at. Like he didn’t. He said, No,

I have been working my ass off in therapy working. It’s just the general theme of my life. Right now. I am putting my absolute best foot forward possible that I can. Yeah. And yeah, so you’re right. I gave you my legit top of mine. This is where I’m at answer.

And it was a great one minute message and it was respectful and honest and all those kind of things. It was perfect. But then yes for messaged me after I deleted the message. And that thoughtfulness went right out the window. And I could care less about that at that point. And I wanted to kill them. Wow. Well, not literally. But oh man, I talked to Megan too. Like, I just I’m like what do I do here? Like I no one could help me because I it took finally therapy and us explaining it to me to see the light. I still up until therapy was spit nickels.

It’s such a funny phrase.

Is that funny for a that’s like an old school phrase. So

yeah, I mean, and that was hard. Because I really felt as much as I feel bad that it wasn’t me or whatever, when you’re talking. Yeah, in the moment, I really had to keep my guard up and just be like, I’m sticking to this. Like, I really don’t feel I have anything to apologize for

in that. And that. And again, I applaud you for that. But this is where we should have talked on the phone. Like instead of doing this texting back and forth, sure, like you would like and I know you probably didn’t want to because you’re probably worried if I was going to be like super pissed. But I just feel like such a dick. Like, I’m like, why didn’t I see through? I had been struggling and I still am struggling with whatever. I don’t know what to call it. Gary? Oh, damn it, I’m gonna have to beat that. I edited anyways. But that’s what I’ve been calling it this. I’ve been calling it actually I’ll be bit again, Greek cloud, talking about like, COVID. And everything is going on with our government. It’s just like a Greek cloud. There’s three beams I’m gonna have to do. But that’s what I call it. And that’s what’s been going on. I told that to my therapist, she thought that was pretty good. It’s good. But I mean, that’s what’s been going on. And and I’m not using that as an excuse. But I mean, I’m sure a lot of people are doing dealing with the same cloud. While you’re over there, like killing it. Like mentally,

mentally he

was you’re good. Like, I just see you being successful in the last 30 days. For whatever reason. I don’t know, can you? I’m setting it. Can you mess up a little bit so I can feel a little better?

Well, I mean, do you

have anything like? Oh, you do have a low point in there.

Yeah. We’ll get to that right over that. Yeah, I mean, there certainly. Well, here’s the deal. I have been working my ass off in therapy and going in talking about really tough stuff that I would rather not. And it’s just, I don’t know and help. It’s helping. And then I keep talking about this planner, I need to write them and ask them to sponsor our show. You need to because this planner is just incredible. Mike bought one and I don’t know if he’s using it or not. But you talked about on the podcast, he bought one. But this planner, it just has you write it all out in like, what are you committing to for this month? What are the goals that you’re setting? What what people do need in your life to hold you accountable, like breaking everything down, and you write it and when, at least for me, if I write something down, it’s more impactful. It’s very impactful because that’s like, that’s a word I’m making with myself. Yeah, like, I can go back and read that and if I didn’t do what I said I was gonna do That hurts

while the planners great, though, but you’re still doing most of the work. Oh, I mean, while the planner is there, you’re still like you still, you can make a plan but you still have to you the person has to put in.

And I think the hardest part for me is making the plan. And so having this plan that I get to make, and it’s like a template, I can follow it and do it. It’s just like a really good starting point.

Yeah, I thought I’ve needed. I talked about Magnus, as we’re adding a couple, you know, adding clients to the podcast. I’m getting busy. I’m struggling. I’m all this is in my head. And I was telling Megan, I think on Sundays, I need to do a weekly plan, like what do I have to do this week? Yeah, instead of like sitting down every morning and staring at the computer and going? Well, that’s, I mean, I have little notes here and there. But it’s nothing like okay, this week, you have threads on Friday, you have to edit this for this day and just write it out. Just make a Trello board for your personal life. But I think I like the thought of you writing it down. I think me putting it on a piece of paper where it’s not on a device where I come down on like a legal pad and look at it every time I sit down. I mean, I could do that on Trello, too. But I think I like the the switch from getting away from the electronic devices is kind of going back to like the old school.

Yeah. Yeah. Like when I started filling out the plan, and all the different things. I just took a step back from my computer and sat in my comfy chair in the office and fill it out pen and paper. I like that I’m

kind of intrigued by that. Because we’re all so dependent on our devices. Yeah. I mean, Mike, we use I don’t know if you guys still use cozy,

not anymore. We just use Apple calendar now.

Okay, well, it’s like that’s my lifeline. Like everything I like, once on Sunday, we sit down Megan and I and go through it. Yeah, stuff. And but Hmm, well, why don’t we jump into your work? Do you want to talk about your workflow? Yeah. All right. Can.

So I realized the desert of being in commissions. Yesterday’s pay knows today’s paycheck. Oh, gosh. I’m telling you like, it was three numbers. three digits. I didn’t even hit the the G mark. I mean, it was small. And it’s like, oh, and this is my first month where I’m 100%. commission only. Okay. My, my previous check was huge. So it carried us over and we’re okay. But this was just a reality check. This pay period, wrapped up at the end of the holidays, and was just bone dry. Like, I didn’t sell anything. I didn’t have anything to install. I was just at a very low point. And I was at the point of about a week ago, I think I even mentioned to Jason like, I don’t know, man, this is really crazy. I know, I certainly told my wife. I was like, maybe I just need to find something else. Go find another job. Like, I don’t know if I can do this. And then I called my buddy Jason gipping. Who? We haven’t had them on threads. But we need to

know we have talked about. He talked about having his white on. Yeah, we had him on the gig podcast back when it was the different name.

Yeah. Hmm. So he’s been in the security industry for a while now. And the reason I even got into this industry is because he encouraged me in that direction. So I just called him I was like, Dude, what the hell is going on with January? Like, am I doing something wrong? Like, you know, I said, Please call me out and tell me if I’m being whiny. But this sucks. And he just laughs He goes, have you been doing any like professional development webinars? I was like, Well, yeah. It’s like, Well, why do you think that is Benjamin? Sloman? He helped. And I was like, Well, why? Cuz like, Ben, people don’t spend money in January. So they load up the professional development webinars and all this other stuff to fill your day. He’s like, it’s just the reality of it. January sucks. Yeah. And I was like, Gee, thanks. What am I supposed to do with that? Yeah. And so he’s like, you know what to do? Like, just increase your activity. Go out. Just kill it and drag it home. He’s like, you’ll be fine. Yeah, like, Okay. And then on clubhouse I don’t remember where I heard, but somebody was talking about the book fanatical prospecting, and I had it in my audible library for a while. So I just decided to listen to it. And it it really inspired. You helped man. It hit hard like I started listening to it on Saturday last week. So when I started the week on Monday, I started with like this new newfound commitment to just go crazy fanatical in my prospecting, like, dialing 50 people a day going out and seeing 10 to 15 customer sites per day. And it’s amazing what that turned up. Yeah, there are so many opportunities that I’m now have to pursue in the month of February, because I did that hard work. So I was at a very low point of just saying, EFF this, I’m out. And now, less than a week later, I’m like, let’s go. This is awesome.

So how was that different from Nordyke? Now? You? I mean, I’m sure it was a little bit slower in January, but at a base. That’s true. That’s true. Yeah, that’s it right there. Okay, so it was still slow in January FOIA. Okay, for sure. So you kind of knew this was common,

but not to this degree. Right. So that’s a good point.

Yeah. I mean, it’s all for gigwalk, too. I mean, everyone’s broke from Christmas. Yep. No one’s spending money. It’s just, it is the reality and come out mid February, things will start perking up and down as the snow starts mounting.

Yeah. And then. So on Tuesday, this week, I called just somebody on my call list for the day and was like, told me my spiel and said, Yeah, let’s meet. How about Thursday? I was like, Yeah, I’d love to meet with you on Thursday. So I met with him on Thursday, and he bought on the spot, really like, Whoa, I can do this. So that was really encouraging. Yeah,

I don’t know how you did. I mean, I applaud you for taking a job that doesn’t have a base.

Well, it doesn’t. But the company gives me provided appointments, right. Except them for me. So

but it comes down to I mean, it makes you have to close though, because yeah, even though they give you those It doesn’t mean

it’s not a guaranteed sale,

but it is, it is a it’s not a cold call, you know, it’s like they call

they called my employer and said I want this. Yeah. And they sent me to make it happen. Okay, so

it’s what would you say? It’s probably more than 50% chance that you’re gonna sell it? I think so maybe even like, 75. That’s probably fair. Okay. So, and you probably have been getting a lot of those because it’s

just No, I wasn’t there. That’s why I was so frustrated a week ago. But over the last week, of course, I’ve had more company appointments set for me, and I’ve sold some of those and nice, it’s really going to be okay, but I just had a real wake up reckoning moment. And I fully realized the financial implications of that today when I saw the the payday deposits like, ooh,

can you imagine? Sorry, can you imagine being a realtor, though? Like they have the same, but they have a ton of expenses going Oh, yeah. All the ad revenue, everything they’re showing homes? Yeah. And delco. Like, if it’s a dry spell, like that’s, like, that’s a real bad dry spell, right. So you really got to save when you’re, when you’re on top of that month, I have a huge month, you got to save those pennies for the ones where you’re like, dog in it.

Yeah, not dog in it. But you know, and we were very mindful that when I was my income was crazy.

At the end of the year, it was like a ridiculous number. It was probably the most he ever made in one month.

Yeah. Like, so we just were really committed to we’re not gonna blow this good job. We’re gonna hold on to this, because you never know what’s gonna come. And thank goodness, we didn’t spend it all because it’s carrying us through this little patch we call January, right? So it’s just been super transformative. And here’s the thing I have been just venting, I guess, to my manager the whole way through. And even when I was frustrated, and even when I was like, I, I don’t know if I can keep this up. Like I told them that that’s I don’t know if this is a good option long term. And he just maintained this attitude or approach of it’s gonna be okay. He’s seen it before. Oh, yeah. So, and then he’s like, you just got to stop being so hard on yourself. Like, okay, well, that doesn’t pay the bills. But I took his advice. Seriously, you know, I was like, Whatever. I’m not gonna take myself so seriously. I’m gonna go out and I’m gonna make all these calls because I can do it. Yeah. And let’s just make shit happen. Yeah, and I did. So it was a good turnaround moment. So what was a valley a week ago is now I feel like I’m on the climb up the mountain again. Nice. So

very good. Yeah. So we’re gonna skip the faith as we’re, you know, 55 minutes in we’re gonna jump just into mental health and just kind of wrap up the show tonight, which it’s been good conversation I I’m feeling really good about not about our fight, but just just, I’m just feeling really, I don’t know, I feel like this was I wanted to talk about Ben did not put this on the rundown. He sure did. I add it Ben puts the rundown together and stuff. He does a lot of the show prep. And he didn’t put it on there. But I did. I was like, I need some closure on this like, and I feel I feel like I did. So.

Are you upset that I told Mike? Why we were being quiet?

I mean, why we’re being quiet because you said you didn’t give him any details. So you just say

you said we’re having a fight basically. Okay.

I don’t know. I mean, I did a lot of soul searching about like, talking behind people’s backs. And while it feels good in the moment, it doesn’t work long term. Now, I know you weren’t doing that with Mike

Jasper more just. Well, I, I guess if the table was turned, I think I might feel a little miffed. If you told Mike, that. Here’s why we aren’t saying anything. But I just I don’t know. I didn’t think you were in a space where you were going to tell him? Hey, this is why nobody’s talking back to you. Yeah, I

wouldn’t. I just would not respond. I’ll probably I would have probably circled back. Yeah. So it’s probably probably good that you did. Yeah, Mike and I are it’s a it’s a new relationship is I’m learning a lot about Mike. And I’m enjoying the time that we’ve, you know, telegram time that we’ve spent together. But uh, no, I’m not miffed about it. Okay.

No, cuz when I brought that up, I was like, Oh, shit. I didn’t tell him about this part.

I mean, you have to have a friend outlet. Yeah, I feel like you have a lot of friends. I don’t have a ton of friends. a shocker, right? Like, but I want I I kind of wish you and I met on different circumstances. Sure. Like, we didn’t work together. Because I think like you and I, I mean, we still are go real deep together. But there’s always that extra layer of, well, we work together too. So you know, if you don’t do your work, or you don’t lean my way on I’m financial decision or whatever. I’m going to be miffed about it. And yeah, so in a different world. You know, I don’t know how we can work on that. Like, I talked to my therapist, therapist about that, like, how can we work on like, being friends? Like, how can we separate that? It’s so

hard, because Oh, so not only do we have threads, but we made the business decision about a year ago to bring threads under this umbrella of idea company. And I think that was a smart move. But it just complicates things on a relational level, you know, and it’s not just threads podcast, it’s Hey, guys, Media Group, like we were all legit LLC company. Right?

Yeah. And then I kind of feel like they kind of own threads. Yeah. And that if we had a falling out with the aspar, like, Okay, this is weird. Like, what are we gonna do here? You know, obviously, I don’t think we would. It’s funny when I did bring up the partnership thing, how it? I don’t like it, I think yes, forgot offended by that. Yeah, I feel like, but he didn’t let me finish either. And I was gonna say, The best part about partnerships is like the great things that happen that I don’t think about, like, for example, and then we’ll we’ll wrap this part up. I had a meeting at Wheaton feet today. And I talked about I really wanted to go for 10 hour days in the summer, so I could have Friday’s off. Yeah. And I’m only thinking about 10 hour days and Friday’s off. He’s like, well, there’s a couple of issues, you know, you know, what do we do about material? Like, when we load up for pre emergent, we’re already packed to the gills. If you’re working an extra two hours a day? Are you going to have the room for material? And then there was a couple other reasons. I was like, Oh, yeah. And that’s how I kind of look at partnerships. I bring up an idea. And then yesterday, like, did you think about this or bad I’m like, you know, sometimes I tell them dafa. But sometimes I say You know what? You’re 100%. Right. And this is a stupid idea. So that’s the best part about partners. Yes.

And then there is the fun part of when somebody proposes something and you really want it to you can sway the vote.

Well, that’s funny. You bring that up because I’ve had multiple occasions where I have worked the behind the scenes With the Esper right, because maybe you’re not on board

right it

to like it, bringing up the voiceovers, we never did that. Yeah, I thought about the other day, like you were so passionate about it, and we agreed with it, and we never did it. But like, yes, we’re, I’ll be like, Hey, asper like, I really want this. Like, he goes, Oh, that sounds like a good idea. And then when we go to vote, he flips. I’m like,

yeah, hell yeah. So, yeah, voiceovers, I’m still a fan of it. But I know I just, well, now that I want it.

I want to do it now.

Like, I will do it. I

want to get back like I forgot about it. And you never you stopped bringing it up, like I moved on, because I wasn’t super passionate about you weren’t.


you were and but then you just didn’t bring it up anymore. So I was like, What the hell?

Anyways, we’re like digressing, business chat. So this was supposed to be mental health update.

Yeah. So let’s, let’s talk about that. Um, you can go first. Yeah.

Like I said earlier, therapy has been good. But it’s been just, like, for example, in the last session, stuff came up about my last ministry job. And I realized that I had never verbalized, how the whole exit process went from that job and how unbelievably awkward it was, was that where they kind of change their mind at the board meeting or something? No, this was the one in Michigan, like, I never talk about, oh, like the nonprofit that I worked at, I just, it was such a bummer of an experience that I just kind of was like, I don’t have the, the bandwidth bandwidth to even handle this. So I’m just out. And I said peace out and went and found a different job. But leading up to that, like my exit interview, and, and like how I was just how the whole process was handled was very poor. And all of that started coming up in the last session. And I’m sitting there looking at the computer screen. I’m just like, I haven’t said any of this to anybody before. And here I am sitting in a teletherapy session. Just putting it all out there. Like this really kind of hurts, but it feels good at the same time. Excellent. So therapy’s been good. I grew up our whole family is just kind of been swept under the rug type of people. Yeah. So with this past experience, even though it was a short lived time of employment, it really did bother me. But I swept it under the rug. And I didn’t talk to anybody about it. And then I was just like, Alright, this happened.

Moving on, which that’s how you need to deal with it. But you should still talk about it. You should have that attitude of like, well, this sucked. I’m moving on. But if it’s if you don’t have closure on it, you should still move on. But still talk about it. Yeah.

Like, like it was, it was to the point where I was in tears in this session. I’m just like, Well, clearly, this is bothering me. I haven’t talked about this with anybody. And it just feels so good to get it out there.

Yeah. So I kind of like, this is kind of funny, but not funny. But I really want to have a good cry. Like, I’ve never cried in therapy. Really? No, I’ve teared up a few times, like I

guess I’ll tear up and cry. Yeah,

I don’t know. I just feel like I’m, that’s kind of one of the reasons I’m terrified of the EMDR is like, I’ve frayed I’m in like, open some floodgates. And just, and I know it’ll be beneficial in the long run. But I feel like I’m going to open it up and it’s just going to be like a shitstorm of

well, what happens bear with me on this analogy, what happens with a firefighter, they open up the the floodgate and they let the water go, what happens? Fire goes away. Yeah. True. So,

but did you ever Do you ever feel like sometimes see, most of my stuff comes out in anger, but sometimes I wish I could just sit down and like just cry about shit. Like

that’s not you at all.

The last time like my kids, like Avery, she’s like, I’ve seen dad cry one time and that’s when we put Baxter down. And like and it was like, all Glee cry. Like, it was really bad, but I feel kind of bad that my kids have never seen me like, I don’t know. And I and I’m not one of those guys are like, I don’t cry. I just I don’t know, it just I don’t know. Yeah,

I’m an ugly crier.

Like I think everyone,

not because I don’t know like, I think the Last time I cried I like was dry heaving because it was so weird for me to be crying. And I just like I gotta rein this in Super odd oh man was it like in front of somebody that think it was? I mean, the time that comes to mind this is again threads life unfiltered. It was probably I think it was on the vacation we tried to take one Christmas to Chicago

with your nuclear family. Yeah,

okay. And both of my kids were having freakout meltdown moment. Okay, I was just beyond whelmed just like, so pissed. So sad that my kids were experiencing the emotions they were but angry too. And

yeah, like you’re doing all this fun stuff supposed

to be fun. And you guys are laughing this up. Like,

vacations are terrible with kids. Let’s just put that out there. until they’re older like they are now. They’ll they’re I mean, of course. COVID. But yeah, I feel like miracles been just being a rock star lately. So I’m super excited when when COVID super excited. When COVID xover. And y’all can go on a vacation. Yeah, just to see how much better it is.

Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was so bad, though. I just remember, like, so the kids are freaking out. I start to lose it. Andy just rolls her eyes in size. And I think she just stepped out of the hotel room for a few minutes. And I was like, all right. Get yourself together. Yeah, like be the man. It’s crazy. It was hard. So that’s the ugly cry story for me.

Yeah. Um, so as far as therapy goes for me, I’ve just been I told Ben. I don’t know. Was it last weekend? Like, I’m just like, so out of sorts. Yeah. Cuz I had said something else that maybe I circled back and said was that mean? I, you know, I don’t know what it was. But I’ve just been out of sorts. And we talked about the cloud. I don’t know what it is. But yeah, I’m actually exploring getting on meds. Now I’m on Cymbalta. But I don’t really think it does. I mean, I don’t know Originally, I got on Cymbalta for pain, because it has a weird side effect work and help people with pain, and never helped me with pain. But I felt at the time when I was taking it. It helped me with, like, mental issues. Sure. But I don’t feel like it’s doing it now. And I don’t know, I just it’s not just you or that I’m struggling with it’s I’m struggling with my wife. You know what I mean? So it’s like those, you, you and her like the, you know, other than my kids, of course, are like important people. And I don’t want to eff it up. Yeah, you know what I mean? And if that means I need to be on a low dose of whatever medication, try a few. I think I’m willing to do that.

Yeah, I’ve been on the end where it was helpful. And I needed it during a certain time in my life. Like, I needed it. Like back when I was ugly crying within the hotel room. It was around that time. You needed meds, and Jesus right. And a big old beer. But it was around. It was that time where I was taking the antidepressant and I absolutely needed it. Yeah. But over the last year, I’ve just been making strides, and especially more So recently, and so I guess what I’m saying is, it’s okay, if you need it for a certain time.

Well, I think I’ve become to the point and saying I’m okay, if I need it forever. Yeah, I’m okay with that. So

I guess, as your friend, I hope that’s not what’s needed. But

But until these brain, these wires in my brain get rewired and switched around.

I don’t know, like, go do the EMDR I’m not doing it. I know, shit. Like I’m

not doing it.

I know. So I guess my encouragement to you is Yeah, if it’s gonna be helpful during this time. Absolutely. I just don’t want to see you not do the hard work of EMDR.

Right and just do the meds. Right? Is that what you’re kind of getting? Yeah, for sure. I totally get that because I’ve been there. Like there was a time where I would just continue taking them because it was what I’d been doing for a couple years. And I do have therapy tomorrow. And one thing I’m going to go to explore is like can I do EMDR? And meds? Like cuz it’s mostly adult things to take the edge off? Is it going to prevent me from really exploring the depths of hell?

Yeah. Yeah, I don’t know. I know for me, I started seeing my work performance really fall off a steep cliff when I was taking them on. I didn’t need to be real. It’s basically zapping my motivation to do anything. So that’s what I worry about.

I worry about it. It’s gonna do my like my creativity. Now. I had been on Depo and Lexapro now Depakote is pretty hardcore, like back in the day and I was like, numb to anything like I could watch a baby gear get run over and I’d be like, Oh, you Oh, no, I wouldn’t be like, whatever I go, I wouldn’t do it. And I hated it. So I got off those because I was like, I don’t like this. So I don’t want to be on something like that. And that was like 20 years ago. So I know meds have changed. And technology is a little bit better. But so that’s where I’m at. and mental health. Yeah, we’re gonna explore some ads and just try it out.

It’ll be good for you. Yeah. Yeah, I think I support you in that. I don’t think I know, I support you. I do support. I do support you in that. So we’ll go.

What’s your takeaway from this show? Like, as we kind of wrap up, we’re gonna skip faith, and I think

that’s fine. Um, it was just, I really, okay, so when I put the show together, it didn’t even cross my mind to talk about the fight. Really, like it just wasn’t even on my radar. It’s not like I intentionally left it off. But I’m wondering if perhaps that’s just another instance, where that’s how I was trained. Like, we wrapped it up, so let’s just not talk about it anymore.

And see, that’s what that happened with me too. Like growing up? Yeah. No, it was kind of like, shit went down. Mom apologize. And then we didn’t talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. So. So that’s your takeaway that like, sorry, I totally correct your thought, like, I just went, Oh,

well, I guess what I’m getting at my takeaway is, even in moments where I don’t purposely sweep things under the rug and just move on. I feel like this is another time where I just kind of instinctively did that.


And I’m really working on that.

Yeah, I mean, we solve the problem we did. I mean, I apologize. And not to say that, you know, it was just like, Oh, I’m sorry. And we moved on, I’m sure it took so some days for you to kind of recoup and, but, um,

but I mean, threads was legitimately on the line, I think it was it was in my

head, too.

And so to do a show and not talk about that, like, I feel like that would be disingenuous to that. So I’m glad you put it in there. Because right wasn’t even on my radar. Well, you know

why I do that I

want people to listen, and not just to me, I want people to be like, feel comfortable with effing up, like talking about it. Like, it’s so helpful to communicate about those things. And absolutely. And that’s kind of why I do it. Now, if we didn’t have this podcast, would we probably talk about again? I don’t think so.

If we didn’t have threads, I don’t think we’d be friends till

really see

what i’m saying that because threads is like what holds us together. But the fact that threads forces, these conversation,

it forces us to be better p

threads doesn’t just keep us together because we have a show to put on. That’s not what I’m saying. Okay, what I’m saying is, it’s because we’re committed to being authentic, being authentic and real that it just the natural byproduct is is it keep shit real? Yeah,

I mean, like I said, if you go back and listen to threads from the beginning, like, how you were like, I wouldn’t say you were like, anti counselor or anti therapy.

I was pretty much as close as you could get really, without being okay. I but and then I found a therapist who ended up being kind of a joke.

Yeah. But it’s just the the transformation just just to reflecting on what you just talked about, like the show has really made us grow as people is like, you can just look back and just, I mean, I I can’t wait for like maybe our kids to look back or especially yours as far as like your trans, you know, transgression, no.

Transformation transformation.

Not like you had this big transformation, but like going to therapy and you’re you’re dealing with some stuff that you’ve never talked about in your whole life. Like, that’s huge. And it would just be cool for your kids to look back and like look at look, look at the work my dad did. Yeah, like how, how often Can you show your kids like, look at the work I did the last five years or whatever, seriously?

So what I took away is that you snitch to Mike.

I know. are you bothered by that? A little bit because I know it was I said the word Mike and I was like, Oh shit. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. What do I do? What do I do? Well,

I mean, it’s fine. It’s totally fine. Again, it’s, it really is fine. I was just, I was shocked. I was actually kind of surprised. But, I mean, let’s face it. You are a little bit of a gossip. You love to post stuff on Facebook. Like I feel like you like to get stuff out like going with it. I mean, don’t you

kind of feel I don’t know if a gossip is I don’t know gossip just via sound so like I think the spirit behind the gossip is very different than

Yeah, spirit. That’s true. You’re right. The intention. Yeah, tension is ever I don’t know.

I have messenger. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I love to get the word out.

I mean, I feel like on threads I don’t mind like airing my dirty laundry but like, I don’t run to Facebook and be like, and that’s totally cool that you do. I’m not being negative. Okay.

I didn’t say a word about our fight. No, I didn’t say a word about my doctor’s visit this week on Facebook. Which doctors?

Did I miss something? No.

What if we had to go to urgent care?

Oh, you did it.

I didn’t say a word. Barely on


Oh my gosh. I said nothing. I’m still embarrassed by that.

He had one of those rashes that lasts for hours.

No, no, I did not. Anyways.

So that’s kind of my takeaway with the mic. I mean, it doesn’t bother me. I’m glad that I’m kind of glad you did. Like he’s kind of become into our circle.

Yeah. And it’s almost like our I don’t know, our pastoral consultant. I know.

I know. I actually have felt a little guilty swearing when I cuz like saying the F word when I’m leaving a message. Like I’ll say it and then after I release, I was like, but he probably doesn’t care. Maybe it does. I don’t know. You know, I feel like he’ll tell me. He would like we’re talking about if it’s gonna listen to the episode on Friday. We’re gonna get message at like 730 after he listens

to it. Well, guys, thank

you so much for listening to us. I’m super excited that you listened to us. Again, check out buy me a slash threads podcast and then of course sign up for the newsletter.

Anything else?

Am I missing anything?

I think so. I think that’s it.

I hope this was a good show. It

was super long. But how long?

Our 17 Oh, man.

Start tonight.

Alright guys, thanks so much.

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