Transcription Episode #118

Hi guys, welcome to threads podcast life unfiltered. Thank you so much for joining us this evening or whenever you’re listening to the podcast, we really appreciate y’all listening. And tonight is gonna be what personal format Episode 119. But before we get into that, that’s going to tell us what threads podcast is all about.

little housekeeping.

The threads, podcast life unfiltered is an opportunity for Jason and I to have conversations about things that matter, things that maybe don’t always get talked about top of mind. You know, so often when we think of talking with each other small talk comes to mind, like how’s the weather, or how’s your kids, or how’s the wife, and you know, conversation tends to be pretty shallow these days. And especially in the midst of COVID, there just seems to be a lack of connection and communication between people. We want to change that, we want to see a world where it’s okay to have vulnerable conversations where it’s okay to, you know, be your true self and not feel like you have to wear a mask. Now that COVID mask, but a mask. And that is really what we are striving to do is to show the world who we are. And our whole goal in doing that is to encourage you as our listeners to have similar conversations and to show up authentically in your life, whatever that might look like in your context. And that is what the thrones podcast is all about.

So before we jump into the personal format, just some housekeeping, love to get you to sign up for a newsletter, Ben check the account today. Apparently, our good friend Larry signed up.

So now thanks, Larry.

Well, well, we

thank you it also put another piece of work on my list because now I have to do the newsletter, Larry. Thanks. And then of course we have buy me a coffee. If you go to buy me coffee comm slash threads podcast, you can buy us a coffee. Or you can sign up for a membership that is a monthly charge that gets you all kinds of extra perks. Just go to buy me coffee and search threads podcast, we would really appreciate you guys doing that. So Ben, do you want to recap? The last couple episodes,

we’ve had a couple of really good ones back to back I feel like And truth be told, I’m basing that mainly on my wife’s feedback.

I thought you were gonna say Mike I

well. I mean him to his right. His feedback is definitely in line with what Andy had to say. But the dawn episode was interesting. Yeah, she has a very different perspective when it comes to mental health and sees herself more as a coach versus a therapist that’s gonna, you know, sit down with you for an unspecified amount of sessions, and maybe never get to what you’re really urgently wanting to talk about. So her approach was interesting.

I feel like that’s a polite word.

It is. And I use that word a lot. That’s something that I’ve talked about with my therapist. He always says, Ben, tell me about interesting. Like, well, what’s behind that interesting. So, no, I really enjoyed dawn as a person. Like she was a fantastic guest. She was bold and authentic and kind of said things how they are and wasn’t afraid to share her story and go deep. So very much appreciated that.

Yeah, I did, too. I just think when things are outside what we’re used to, like traditional therapy, I think, not that we were uncomfortable, but just like,


I mean, like, right, and it doesn’t, it’s not like saying that I don’t believe that she can do what she’s telling me. But it’s just you know, it’s kind of proof is in the pudding. Right? Exactly. Don was great or personality fits right with mine. I would love to have beers with her, you know, just shoot the shit and talk about life and those kinds of things. And yeah, I would be interested in actually having a few sessions with her. Just to see, you know, cuz we’re all dealing with some stuff, but

for sure.

Yeah, currently, I’m paying cash for my therapist, so I’m not in the position to pay more cash for another therapy, per se. But uh, yeah, I really enjoyed that one. And then the other one was the nine things episode nine things you should never What was it again, nine things you should never do in life, never do in life. And Mike’s feedback on that, which I thought was interesting. And I like his feedback, because I feel like he’s telling the truth, but he’s like, Yeah, man. I saw that title. And I was like, how are they gonna pull this out? But then when he listened It was good. Yeah. And I agree, I loved our digression. I think it was appropriate. And except the big Johnson talk, she had to mark the episode explicit.

I’m surprised you just didn’t take it out.

It was funny. It was so I mean, I like that stuff. I’ve always wanted to do a podcast where I can just cut loose and Oh, yeah. I mean, I can do it. Do that. But I mean, I don’t have the time. Right. Just cut loose and have, you know, dick jokes. And you know, your mom jokes and just have, you know, just fun. Oh, you know what I mean? So sure, but I thought I better throw it on there. Because that shirt was pretty racy. The words I said. So

that was awesome. I also enjoyed that episode, I was a little bit apprehensive going into it. Yeah, I

know, you were

because we originally the plan was to have a guest on or to do something, you know, different. And so this definitely was different. It was so different. Like, we’ve never just taken a random article and committed a whole episode to it.

Yeah, that’s hard to do. Like, I feel like we’re pretty experienced podcasters. And I think if we would have done that, like Episode 75, or under, I think it would have been a struggle.

Oh, yeah. I think it would have flopped.

Yeah, we’ve come we’ve come a long ways in the last 50 episodes, not to say the other ones aren’t good. But it’s just it’s almost like just pressing record. Although you did put some now you really didn’t put any thought in not that it’s a bad thing. But I was like, do you wrote a bunch of stuff now you just copied and paste it? So that’s really like press and record? We had like one idea. And then right. So

I know, every episode feels different in its own way.

Which Yes, yeah, I

think I hope people if we would get some feedback. Speaking of that, or emails,

I want your feedback so bad. That if you write a review for us on Apple podcasts, or how I’ll even buy you a coffee, if you send us an email and just say, Hey, I listened to your show, and I like it. No, please add other words more than that. No way. You

have to put a caveat. You have never emailed us before and you’ve never met us. Yeah,

you don’t know. It’s not a personal Larry. Mike. Justin, Matt fell pot. Right. All you guys. Sorry. We know you. It needs to be from somebody we’ve never met.

Why do we know you’re out there? Why don’t we stick to the review? I think the emails putting too much out there personally, personally,

okay, fine. Write us a review on Apple podcasts. And then once you’ve written the review, please do email us to let us know that it was you. And you can email us at Hello, at threads Go now write a review. Let us know you exist. We see these numbers. And we know there’s listeners out there. Who are you? What do you like about the show?

What do you us? What do you hate about it? Right?

I don’t go right to review right now. And then email us press pause. Don’t

do anything else come back when you’ve written the review. And you have to write it you can just give five stars because that doesn’t mean shit for us. Like we need the five stars. Or one star. I

don’t really care. But you want feedback. Yeah,

I want feedback. You know, didn’t we do a survey A while back and it was like pulling teeth and we were giving away like gift cards? Yeah, we

couldn’t advertise it on Twitter because people were searching for Starbucks gift card giveaway.

Right? We had to do it a little bit different. But I mean, I think that myself if someone’s gonna offer me $5 and it’s gonna take me like two minutes to do a survey. I would do it for free. I mean, maybe maybe all our listeners are rich. Maybe.

Maybe I don’t like coffee. I

don’t know. I don’t even care. No, I think it was just this. No, it was a Starbucks. Maybe. Maybe we next time we should do just a random Amazon everyone shops at Amazon. Right. But I feel like even if I was rich, I would still do the $5 gift card. Like, I actually get slow shipping if it’s for stuff I don’t want. And I get $1 credit for rentals on Amazon like, hey, if I don’t need it, tell Monday the following Monday. Why not save $1 on a rental?

I mean, it’s $1 and how often do you rent things?

We actually on Amazon. We rent it all the time. Oh, we rent movies. Oh, like, you know, like a new movie that comes out, which is very scarce lately.

We always go for the free ones.

Oh, no, no, we go the new releases. But there’s a new one out I think the croods the second crude movie, but it was like you had to rent it and it was or maybe you only could buy it but it was like $30 because they want to get their revenue. The movies are close but now apparently the kids are gonna watch it tonight because it has gone down to like six bucks.

Oh boy. Sorry. Go.


I’m so As we kind of jump into personal update before I want to, you know, we do that we kind of do a little icebreaker just kind of loosen up which I fear. I feel like we’re loose now. But how are you showing up tonight? How how’s the day, Ben? How’s the week? Ben? How’s the week? Ben Ben?

Ah, the week has been on a roller coaster. Yeah, for me. I feel like I started the week strong. And so here’s the deal. I’ve been waiting all week for you. Good. Wow.

Y’all, I’m drinking whiskey tonight. And actually bought a little ball icemaker. So you know, straight whiskey, put the ball in there. Let’s get water down a little bit, but not not quite there yet. Sorry, Ben.

So, I’ve been waiting for an email from my new employer with a schedule for the first week, which is this coming Monday, I start. And so I, I started the week knowing it would probably come sometime during the week, not gonna worry about it. I’m just gonna carry on, do my thing, go to the gym, do some gig work and make stuff happen. So Monday and Tuesday were great. Wednesday was semi okay. I think Wednesday I was in a little bit of a funk because of it was my last official day on payroll. So I was feeling like a cool. Well, I’m officially done with my last job. And I have no idea what to expect or what the schedule is or what I’m supposed to show up next week. So that’s cool. And then I just kind of got grouchy and grumpy from there.

When when Ben says if you know if you obviously listen to the show, that’s cool with sarcasm, like this is crap.

Like absolute garbage. So my mindset and mentality kind of like a downward spiral. But I’m really proud of myself, because in the midst of that, I was still able to go to the gym and still stay on track with the goals that I’ve set for myself and made it through but it just, it was a little bit more of a roller coaster ride. And then this weekend has been great so far. Andy is out of town. That’s not why it’s great. Good caveat.

Good caveat.

We actually had a date night last night. That was super fun. And then yeah, I just get to have a chill weekend before I go into my new job. And I did finally hear from my boss on Friday. I called him at three o’clock was just like, Hey, you got a minute. What’s the deal? What am I supposed to do when he apologized? He said COVID is making everything very difficult as far as scheduling. Just be here at nine. We’ll figure it out from there. It’s like perfect I can do that.

thought you’re gonna blue balls and not tell us what happened. But I agree that would drive me absolutely insane. Like I’m starting a new job like give me give me something bro.

Right in the job offer email. I was told you we will email you an agenda for your first week. And so I was waiting all week for it. And it never came and it was firing me so badly. I was so on edge about it.

What What’s one thing and well, I shouldn’t say the one thing that I think that screws up so many relationships, and not to the saying that your boss screwed up like I’m not talking to shit or anything. It’s just communication. Yeah. Oh my god, I just want to know what’s up. Like, again, even for us even for like a sale when I have a client right now I’m trying to work on or try to renew crickets, crickets crickets, like just say no, right? Just,

it’s okay. I’m fine. I’m

not gonna cry about it. I’m gonna be like, okay, I’ll revisit you in a couple months, like, Well, you know, those kinds of things. So that’s just frustrating. You just, it’s a simple email. Right? And it’s important for, especially for you being a new employee to put your mind at ease. So for sure, well, good job calling. I’m proud of you for doing that.

Well, I sent him an email earlier in the day. So funny story Thursday night, and he’s like, babe, just call him tomorrow. It’s like, I’ll send him an email. Like no, call him. I said, Well, you want to call for me.

It’s awkward. Right. Especially being a new employee. Yeah, like,

just call up the president. Hey, hired you? Yeah.

Oh, interesting. So being somewhat of a bigger company locally, they still have the president interview. That is interesting.

Yeah. Huh. It was whole thing’s been kind of a fun ride.

Yeah, when I say interesting, it’s not a bad thing. I just I’m actually quite impressed. Yeah. It’s a bad thing because he needs to micromanage everything.

No, I don’t think that’s it at all. If he did need to micromanage he would have been calling me every other day. That’s true. So good point. And then he really put my anxiety at ease. And he goes, Oh, by the way, we’ve gotten to unsolicited pieces of Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

we are just an icebreaker right here. We are not in the personal update.

Okay, fine. I’ll pause that and I’ll hand it over to you Jason. How

are you showing

him in the hat just breezed over my my icebreaker like how I’m coming in tonight.

How are you coming into this other than being annoyed with your co host?

That I love very much.

Thank god. Oh, that was awkward. Yeah, I

just batted my eyes at them with my Nevermind. Oh, yeah. Spit take almost got a spit take out of bed. Drinking medipol. And do I’m coming in. I’m actually coming in pretty pumped tonight. I know. I think the last episode we talked I was coming in. I think I said I was a little down. And I didn’t feel like recording. But I had. I had therapy today, which is usually not a good day after that. But I had a good therapy session. I had a good work day. I had the sun was out. I had a good walk with Megan. So like, I’m coming in check, check. Check. Yeah, like I’m coming in guns blazing, like ready to party. By party. I mean, drink one glass of whiskey and go to bed at 930. So no, I’m coming in good. It was a rocky week. But we’ll get to that a little later. But yeah, that’s I’m showing up tonight.

I’m sorry, that I was about to go on. That’s okay. ad nauseum. It’s what I do

know, I often wonder if we should make sure we keep those like one minute, right? Just how we come in.

I’m usually It’s me who’s the condenser? Not super expanding? But yeah,


It ebbs and flows. Yeah.

Well, as part of our personal update, personal format episodes that we do, we like to first of all, tackle a couple of questions, and they’re always the same. Those questions are, tell us about a new connection formed. Tell us about a meaningful interaction from the week or two weeks, whatever it’s been tell us about a valley or a low point. And lastly, something that you’ve learned. Now these four things we revisit, every time we do a personal format episode. We don’t always answer all four of them, but we like to at least give our thoughts on, you know, two of them, three of them, whatever. So for me, I will go first. And I was about to jump into the story. But a meaningful interaction happened on that phone call with my boss Friday at three. I was in the parking lot at the gym. I was about ready to go in and just crush it on the elliptical because it’s what I do crush it on the elliptical.

It just sounds on the elliptical like does anyone actually crush it on the elliptical? Yes,

I put it on the hills mode. And I level up the intensity.

Yeah. How’s your how’s your, your glutes the but because the hills Wouldn’t that be like your your glutes? I guess. So like your I don’t know, physiology is not my forte.

So on that phone call with my new boss. He’s wrapping up telling me what to expect. And then he goes And oh, by the way, we’ve received two pieces of unsolicited positive feedback about you. He goes, you kind of have a reputation around here already that you’re walking into. That’s crazy. And I was like, Wait, what? So I knew I knew one of them was my friend. He was a I guess, mentor. I don’t even know how to. I don’t know the right label to put on like maybe

an acquaintance but a little bit more.

Well, it started as that. So I met Greg in college, his wife was on staff at the at the college I went to, and so they did some stuff in their house. That’s how I got to know him. And then we ended up going to church together for a little while. And then I moved to Oregon. And then upon coming back, I was just trying to make sense of my place in this world after leaving ministry. And at the time, Greg was a practicing life coach. So I was like, Hey, I’ll hit you up for a few sessions. It’d be good just to figure some things out. Okay. He was a really powerful influence during that period of time. So much so that now when he hears that I’m looking for a job, he just offers to send a letter of recommendation.

Well, it was a little bit more than that, though, wasn’t it

when he did have a connection there. So it wasn’t totally random.

Yeah, he didn’t send one to ADT. Did

he know? He didn’t know anybody? Yeah.

So I feel like you have to put that caveat. Yeah. So

that’s the caveat. He knew somebody that worked on staff at the parent company, which still was cool, though. Like,

I’m not taking any valid or for sure it away from it,

right. It was just something he wanted to do. He’s like, you know, you put yourself out there and took a step of faith. So I want to just respect that. And I’ll be happy to send the letter to my contact. So I was like, go for it. And I only it did exactly what it was intended to do. And then as if that wasn’t enough, there was a person on staff. I don’t even know who he didn’t give me a name. He said he didn’t recall. But somebody who works at the parent company saw the HR update saying that I had been hired. And they responded to the HR lady who also got the letter from Greg. And this person said, Oh, I know about Ben, he’s a great guy. Like, that’s a great find. And I’m just like, wow, who who works there? You’ll

find out? Eventually.

Yeah. So I think I think it’s actually a soccer mom. Okay. Cuz I that’s the only name on their staff page that looks

so so you were able to access that?

Yeah. I mean, that was big. And I’m like, who knows me?

How many boys over there, by the way?

Oh, there’s four different companies. I think they’re probably close to 60. Oh,

that’s a lot smaller than I thought, really? I was thinking in the hundreds, maybe? I

don’t know. I just curious. So sorry. That was just a really a very good way to end the week. Yeah. Cuz I had been so stressed. so anxious. So any remaining anxiety that I had, I just worked it out on the elliptical, like, I push myself pretty hard. And I just go, and I didn’t even realize it until I was in the car. But I had done like a 5k on the elliptical that day. And I didn’t even like slow down or take a break. I just gunned it.

So I love that that’s, you know, that’s a meaningful interaction for you. But my pessimistic brain would be like, oh, that puts added pressure on me. Did you did that cross your mind at all?

A little bit. I said to him? Well, man, the bar is set pretty high already. Yeah. It’s like, Oh, don’t worry about it. Oh, so? Well, I

mean, you almost feel like, like after your last job, like you’ve left in a pretty short amount of time. Like, if that happened here. You’d be like, Oh, I disappointed so many people. I mean, I’m not I’m not saying that you’ll obviously I have 100% faith in you that you won’t, but the pessimist in me would is like, Oh, no,

yeah, to perform right away. And I guess one of my biggest fears was that they would look at me and be like, Who is this guy? He’d stayed at three months at his last job like,

yeah, that is always weird to go into the next employer, because they are like, this is weird, but I feel like you’re in sales. And you’re like, this is BS. Like, they understand that. I think as a salesperson for sure. Like, I get it. Like, I don’t know how you went with that long without income. Like who can do that?

Right. Yeah.

So I think I think you have a valid like, not excuse but a valid situation, for sure.

So that’s how that interaction went. You want to share one of yours?

No, you can finish up.

All right. And then the last thing, it ties right in with this, but just the valley or my low point this week was that anxiety, I have been working so hard to to really weed that out as much as possible. And if I can’t fully get rid of it, see it for what it is and not let it take over my day. So Monday, I was supposed to see my therapist. I picked up a flex route. you purposely skipped there in purposely. I accepted in the morning, and then it was like oh shit. I was supposed to meet with Sean this afternoon. In my mind, I was like It’s okay. I’ll email him. And it’s happened before where I change it last minute. And he’s always had something open later in the week. So I was just kind of thinking in my head that he’ll have something open. His week was booked.

So ding you for a cancellation. We’re going to talk about that in

our next session. Probably. So that was great. That’s usually like my, I don’t know, pick me up on Mondays to help me. You know start the week on a good note. I have therapy Monday for every week. Didn’t happen this week. And I can certainly see that I was struggling. So that was just a low point. And then it just didn’t really pick up very much until Friday, like the anxiety was just ramping this week. You’ll hear later that I was being pretty petty and pessimistic with Jason and a friend of ours. And it was just a rough spot, mentally, but I’m just so glad that I was able to pull myself out of it. And that it didn’t last, you know, weeks on end like it has in the past. Like I would go through funks that just lasted for weeks. I need to, it’s just good to not be there anymore.

Just a real point, before I move on to mine, I really noticed a change in you. I don’t I can’t quite put my finger on it. It’s a good thing. Sorry, I should have prefaced that. Oh, something different about you this year? I don’t know. I, I don’t know what it is. I know we talked earlier about like you just being intentional with your decisions and those kinds of things. But I don’t know what it is yet. Still processing processing it. But it’s a good thing. So don’t, don’t get me wrong. I’ve all these things, I have something that I learned. And I learned


I have ADHD. And

was that seriously like a shock to you? You know, it

was when someone actually said it. But clearly, clearly, everyone else in my life?

What did your wife say?

Ah, I

told you that one,

kind of, kind of, and I’ll talk about a little bit more in the mental health update, which is coming up next. But yeah, I learned that. So that was interesting.

What does interesting mean, unexpected.

So and then this is what I’ve learned that Ben’s a baby? No, I didn’t know where to put this. And I want to talk about it. So we have had issues in our little media company with us talking about each other behind our backs. Now. It’s not always bad. But it causes issues as everyone knows, if you’re talking as behind someone’s back, or not even talking as if you’re if you’re doing things that probably should be addressed to the person that caused whatever you’re talking about. It needs to be addressed with the person. So we’ve kind of made a pact but we’ve tried as business partners signed it with bloods, I know with blood, just try to be more conscientious of that. And I actually caught myself today, I was gonna send you a message about the other partner, but I didn’t. And I was like, No, this is this is this is not this is not even worth it. Like, right. It’s a stupid, it wasn’t a big deal. And it literally went out of my mind and I moved on. So doesn’t mean you shouldn’t address whatever the issues are. But you should address it to that person or directly directly or in the group. You know, just me going to you. Are you going to whatever. So this week. I don’t know what happened. I don’t know how it came up. But Ben Mike and I have a telegram group together. And we’re just talking and somehow I don’t know how do you know how, how it came up the tough mudder thing. I could go back.

I brought up the tough mudder I think maybe it was because I was at the gym and we were talking about working out and you were like I’m not doing anything but sitting on the couch.

Yeah, I don’t know what it does. But we brought up a tough mudder so tough mudder I did back in 2012 for about 2008 2012. I ran half marathons I no shock, right. Like I ran back to back half marathons one weekend. And then the next weekend like I was running like crazy. So I did a tough mudder which is about 10 to 12 miles, the regular one with about 25 like military obstacles, climbing walls, ropes, whatever. It was amazing. It was very hard. But it was so exhilarating when we got done. So we’re talking about it. And Mike’s like I’m in I’m like, What do you mean here and like, I want to do a tough monitor. I’m like, Oh my gosh, I’m in and so we’re having this huge conversation like going back and forth and Ben’s like I’m out. And so we proceeded to try to peer pressure Ben into doing it. Nobody peer pressures Ben to do anything.

know this by now.

So So we went back and forth, blah, blah, blah. And so Mike and I are in like we are like and Mike would say and this. I mean, it’s no surprise if you know, Mike, he’s overweight, just like I am just like Ben is so it hasn’t done a lot of working out. So he was inspired by our conversation. I was like, Yes, I have an accountability partner.

I man let’s do one. No, your statement was I’m in if Ben’s in.

Did I really say that you did so that I think that’s just more of a peer pressure to get you to join the three amigos like I wanted you To do that, so blah, blah, blah. So we stopped talking about it. Then also next day, Ben, like, puts this another statement out, like, not prompted. I don’t know why you did that, like you just like recap what we all talked about, we figured you weren’t going to do it, and basically said it again. And I said, Oh, that’s fine. We took it to another room. So which we did like Mike and I started talking about it, like training, what we’re going to do those kinds of things, and then it was upset about that had

made a remark side note, this is also in the midst of my anxious blog.

But that doesn’t excuse your reactions. It’s giving context it is giving context. I appreciate that. But I always try to, to caveat saying like, I, this is not an excuse, but this was going on. Like I always try to say it’s not an excuse, although when you say it’s not an excuse, and you say it’s kind of an excuse, like, I don’t mean to be a DD bag, you’re gonna be like literally, well, not only that, literally, whatever you say is probably going to be D bag ish. So he was upset about it. And I was like, What the hell man? Like he’s not a business partner. Like, we weren’t talking shit about you. We’re just we actually said, hey, let’s leave that alone. Like, clearly he doesn’t want to do it. We tried our best. Let’s just do this together. So Ben thought we were talking in the back and got off fussy with it. And I was just like, what the hell, dude, and I don’t know. That’s, that’s all I want to say about it. It was very, it was very odd that you did that. Like I thought, you know, we’re not talking shit about you. Like, what? Why would what would we even say? I don’t know Ben’s up. I’m not gonna say the words. I don’t wanna make this explicit. Ben. Such a p? I’m not. No, we didn’t say that. We actually cared for your emotions that, hey, we need to leave that alone. I’m like, yeah, let’s leave him alone. If he wants to come he’ll come. Yeah. And then we just talked training.

It just felt like

Oh, gosh.

Are you realizing something right now?

Oh, it’s just putting into words what I don’t want to put into well, so is this a vulnerable moment?

It is. Okay, we need a stinger, we need so many stingers vulnerable moment.

So as a child, I didn’t have a whole lot of friends. And there were times where the friends that I did have would exclude me intentionally. And so just brought up that feeling of just like, shit, my buddies are doing something behind my back or without me and leaving me out. And then the logical band is like, Dude, it’s because you want it to be left out of it. And so that’s why so I just sent Jason the text. I said, don’t worry about it. I’m just being petty. I’ll get over it. Well,

I couldn’t see this is the problem. We should have FaceTime. We should have FaceTime. Because I read that as like you were still pissed.

No, I was just realizing things about myself. I didn’t really want to give voice to

right. Well, I sorry, I sorry, I sorry. I’m sorry. You felt that because like, that’s, that’s like, like, My daughter is going through that right now. Like you’re in middle school crap. And it’s so

ugly. It is. Yeah. And then another thing too, that was present this week. My son was invited to go skiing downhill skiing for a few days. We don’t have skis. We don’t we’re not a skiing family, you know. So we had to go out and make it happen when which we did. And it wasn’t a problem. But that also brought up so many experiences from middle school. There was a ski club at my middle school and all the cool kids were I’m really, my parents couldn’t afford it. And then as if that wasn’t bad enough youth group, we would go on winter retreats, and three fourths of the kids would go skiing as part of the retreat. And then the remaining quarter of the kid the poor came back the poor kid was

a poor kids are on athletic.

Exactly. So me on both accounts. So So seeing my son, who is far and beyond where I ever was socially, right, he’s just like the polar opposite, Mr. Popular, athletic, all these things that I wasn’t to see him go and go on a ski trip. I’ve never been downhill skiing. I have. It’s fun. And it’s like, so it was dealing with that just feeling like this. Weird left out feeling again, that that brought up. And then I felt that again, when we were having the conversation about tough mudder. And again, it doesn’t make sense logically because I said, I’m out. But it’s still part of the feelings around it. Exactly. So that’s what that was all about. And I didn’t want to dive into it at the moment because I was already feeling anxious about everything else. So I just dismissed it as it’s all right. I’ll get over it. I’m being petty.

Yeah. And I wanted to bring it up and and you know, and I did ask Ben’s permission before we started recording, but because I wanted to know, like, what was up and I appreciate you telling me that because that it makes sense. Like, I get it, man, like all that shit. You’re, you know, I hate to use that word triggered. But I mean you kind of were it was, you know it triggered some emotions and you’re like this sucks like, and I get it like, I think it kind of happened with the Esper and us too, because like you and I were friends, and then all of a sudden, like him and I are doing stuff together. But like for a while, like, you know, I took you away from him.

Yeah, you know, I

mean, I think he’s had some issues with that. So I get it like, it’s, it’s tough. It’s tough to think that you’re going to lose a friendship. And I’ll say like, I don’t think Mike and I can be as tight. Oh, maybe I shouldn’t say that. I just don’t think we can. Because we’re a lot of like, sure. Like, we’re control freaks. And those kind of things

is so weird. He is like, a 50% mix of you. And a 50%. Yes, of me. Yes. It’s so weird.

Yeah. And I think we can have fun and I have no problem hanging out with them. But I can just I could see problems being in like a business relationship with them. And that’s no offense you, Mike. I just think we’re too much alike. And I think well, we would butt heads. So because I know you’ll listen to this and probably give us feedback.

And your email or review doesn’t count, by the way. Yeah,

sorry, bro. You You should do it anyways, because you love us. Right? You

haven’t reviewed us. I don’t think

I’ve reviewed this either. So I guess we should get on? Well, you know what we can do it before he hears this. Anyway, so as we transition to mental health, this is kind of like one of the buckets we talked about uncomfortable conversations, which I think the personal update kind of fell into that bucket with you and me. And then mental health and then some faith discussion. So I’m just gonna give an update a real quick about, you know, I’m gonna let you go. I’ve been talking for like 10 minutes. So why don’t you go ahead for years.

All right. Well, again, I missed my appointment with my therapist this week. And I was a little bit Huh, what’s the right word for it? Scared? Maybe not necessarily scared,

or you’re anxious that you’re going to be anxious?

Yeah, I was like, Oh, I just missed my opportunity to sort through everything. And this is a week where, yeah. And to not have that I was like, Oh, boy. So I kind of knew Monday. This is gonna be a tough week. And it was so I feel like I’ve given my mental health update. Oh, yeah. I mean, just

yeah, you can just brief over it. But brief over, skim over it up, sum it up debrief? No, it’s not debrief. That’s

Shawn not having any availability to meet. It was kind of surprising to me, because in the past, it’s never been an issue. And he’s always, you know, made it work in his schedule. So yeah. So I was hoping that would be the case. And when it wasn’t,

well, you assumed, you know, they say about assumption. Yeah. makes an ass out of you and me. Sure did.

My stomach just dropped to be honest. When I saw his email back, he’s like, actually, I don’t have anything open this week.

Like, oh, that’s not good.

So let’s set the tone for the rest of the week. And it’s just been, like I said, it’s just been a roller coaster ride. Thankfully, you know, it was downhill starting Monday. But by Friday, we picked right back up and things are in a good place now.

Yeah, it’s tough when you’re expecting something and then you screwed up. You’re like, yeah, it’s good. Like it. It’ll pan out in the end, and then it doesn’t pan out. But man, what a week to not have therapy, though. Like, I mean, and yeah, man, good on you. I’m glad you’re, you’re feeling better. Getting some alone time even I know you enjoy that. Of course, love your family, but that’s important to you. Excuse me. Um, so my mental health update, as you have heard, I’ve been struggling going to therapy just because of the telehealth and I’m just feeling a little disconnected. So I’ve been trying, I’ve been thinking about going to a doctor of psychiatry, of that nature and to get some medication. And so this is kind of like a two part story. So I went to made an appointment at telehealth with a recommendation from my psychologist and so we go through the whole appointment and he’s asking me all these questions and like, you know, I’ve always had this attitude about psychiatrists being like, just cold like they’re kind of like, I don’t know, like not pill pushers, but they’re just like, there’s really I don’t know. I feel bad if any psychiatrists are Listen, do not take offense of this. It’s just my opinion. I respect your knowledge in it, but it’s just it’s just an awkward exchange. There’s no connectivity, or like chemistry. Well, there’s chemistry but not, you know, emotional chemistry. And so we’re going through I actually made a joke and he laughed. And so that was kind of fun. And then he said the thing that kind of not purposely brought the joke up, but said it again and then chuckled to himself. I’m like, okay, me the charmer. I’m like, Okay, I got this guy in the bag, whatever. So he gets to the point to talk about recreational drugs. And I have not talked about this on the podcast, but I do use cannabis and I’ve, I’ve hesitated to talk about cannabis because I feel still I feel judged. I feel like there’s a huge stigma. Okay, what

are you doing on your phone? listening to you talk?

No, you’re not. You’re driving me nuts.

You’re doing it earlier.

I looked one time. This whole time I’ve been talking you’ve been what do you actually do and tell me what’s important messaging

David T. SMA, who wants me to go on his podcast that is not important. He needed a phrase so I gave him a phrase

is not important. Right now.

I’m leaving this

in Bebop the F word. So anyways, carry on.

I was not like I already heard the story. Well, you

got it showmanship. Like you got to like, I don’t want to talk to the frickin

glass. You can see your reflection. Yeah, I

talked to myself enough. That’s a part of the problem. Carry on. No,

I’m listening.

Um, so where was I?

You were at the recreational drug use. He talked about it on the show.

Yes. I haven’t talked laughs it off. Thank you. Oh, calm down. Go on. Calm your tits. No. So so I’d love to it off because I just think there’s a little bit of judgment. I get judged. I feel judgment from you. How’s that Mountain Dew?

Great. Feel judgment from? Yeah,

I feel like you are not okay with it. No. Well, you’re their kid. Just like my wife. And anyone that’s a dare kid has issues with cannabis. I’m sorry.

I don’t.

I don’t think you do.

I think you’re making that up.

No, I’m not because I so let me rephrase that. I think you don’t have the knowledge of cannabis. Because like when we talked about that episode about drugs, you’ve talked about it being a gateway drug. So that’s what people say that don’t really know anything about it, which is

okay, that’s why I’m trying to educate. I’ve seen episodes of intervention where it was a gateway drug.

They just say that for dramatic effect now, can it? No, they

put the music in for me. Yeah, I

know. The music changes everything. That’s not even Tick Tock like you can watch a video without music. You’re like what? But you put the music out. Like I’ve been hooked on not hooked but you know the for you page about like, talking about their dogs dying. And there’s a song that they play. And I’m just like, I’m waiting in the drive thru to pick up an order food. I’m like, by the way, my wife’s like, why are you watching him? Like, I don’t know. I enjoy the pain anyways,

I don’t know their kid. I’m so

but So anyways, so maybe you don’t judge? That’s totally fine. I just think you’re you have a thought around cannabis, which a lot of people do, which I totally get. So long story short, that I do that to help with anxiety and pain, pretty much on a daily basis. I don’t get high from it. You would never know if I had done it because it’s fine, unless I took unless I smoked a little too much. Because then I would be a little scattered. But anyways, it actually helps you focus when I edit podcasts. I’ll be honest with you.

So in advance,

yeah, does well, it can do the opposite. But I think with people with ADHD, it actually helps you focus instead of making you like, Hey, man, so So anyways, so that’s what’s going on with me. And that’s what I’ve been using myself to kind of self medicate with that. And so I decided I wanted to look into some pharmaceuticals. And so he gets to that point, and he’s like, Okay, well, how much you do it and I tell him and he’s like, okay, so he talks a little bit like just kind of breezes over. It doesn’t even like discuss it, right, get to the end and says, Okay, so this is what I want you to do for the next 30 days. I don’t want to use cannabis. I’m like, okay, not a deal breaker. I mean, it’s okay. And then at the end of the 30 days, I want you to take a drug test. And I’m like,


I did not say no. In my head. I’m like, nope, as Ben would say. And so I was like, Okay, sounds good. And we disconnected. It was a 30 minute me and I was like, Ben, it’s interesting because I think I am overreacting to that to the drug test because I reached out I talked to you about it and he didn’t seem to have like, the anger reaction like me and I talked to him I didn’t that’s okay. That’s totally okay. And I asked him again, and kind of the same thing. And I talked to my therapist today and and not the same thing because she’s always on my side. Always on my But so yeah, I’m a little pissed off. I’m like, I don’t take a drug test for anybody. My employer doesn’t make me take a drug test. Why can’t we have a civil conversation like manda man, like, I trust that you’re not going to do it? Which wasn’t a deal breaker. It was not. But then I also think so for the next 30 days, I have to suffer with my anxiety. Clearly, I have ADHD, which he said, I checked every single box and the questions that I asked, I was like, What? And Ben’s like, yeah, like, why didn’t no one ever tell me squirrel? So I think what happens is I noticed if you notice, even in the podcast, when I’m talking, I’ll legitimate stop talking sometimes in the middle of a word, and just digress. Not even a digress like, totally stop. And I’ll listen back to some of my telegram messages. And I’ll be like, Oh, yeah, I

have ADD, like, this is the like, I cannot focus on telegram can be so frustrating for me, because you’ll latch on to certain parts of my messages. And you’ll completely ignore everything else and just go down whatever digression you want. And I’m like, Did you hear that part that I said,

I know. You do it too, though.

Because you do.

Oh, whatever. So anyways, short story long. I was just kind of offended by that. So after I clicked off the zoom, I went and smoked. And so I told that was my few. And it honestly wasn’t a few. I think the what the worst part is, there was no explanation. Like, let’s talk about it. Like, let’s talk about why you shouldn’t smoke cannabis, when you’re taking these certain medication. No conversation, no, like,

yeah, I can see that I kind of

felt like a juvenile a little bit like, Oh, this is what you have to do. And then you take a test, and then we give you pills. You know what I mean? I’m just

yeah, I can see where you’re coming to see that,

like, I totally get there may be a reason. I’m sure there’s a valid reason for whatever talk about it. Yeah, let’s have a conversation. And I and I was so aghast by it. I actually am mad at myself that I didn’t bring it up and like whoa, what can we have? Like, you know, me like I you’re I’m surprised. I didn’t do it. But I didn’t. And I am kicking myself that I didn’t feel like

you were more like me in that interaction.

I was just like, what? Like I was actually

kind of sticker shocked a little bit. So. So that’s where that is. I do have another appointment with someone else. I actually did send in my email. Like, I want to have a discussion about cannabis because it’s it’s not a deal breaker. But here’s the problem. I can quit it for the anxiety and ADHD. But how do I treat my pain? Right? Like, do I take opiates because I won’t do that? Because I’ve taken some stuff, not quite opiates, and I don’t want to go the opiate route. For some reason. I’m paranoid about opiates. I’ve heard so many stories about people addicted to opiates, and I might jump. Yeah, I don’t Yeah, I don’t want to go down that road. Like I’ll stick to marijuana or cannabis cannabis. I’m trying to use Word cannabis to take that stigma out of like, Hey, man, you want some pot, or some weed? So yeah, that’s where I’m at. It was a real bummer. Because I was actually it took me a while even to book the appointment, because I was like going back and forth. Do I want to do this? So I want right because I don’t want more far to pharmaceuticals in me. I just don’t. I just don’t. But if it’s going to help me if it’s going to help my relationship with you, with Megan with my kids, because I can be a little less anxious about things and I can focus. I’m all in and then when that happened, I was so disappointed. Yeah,

I hear you. So that was I can see a little bit clearer now why that

was now that would have been more of a discussion.

Yeah, I guess I guess for me when I first heard it, I was like, Well, yeah, if I was in the doctor’s shoes, I probably have a lot of risk that I’d be taking on. I would have a lot of risk taking on if I was in the doctor shoes, because who knows what the you know why you’re acting or things like that, like maybe he could lose his license because of a poor interaction that he knowingly put somebody who uses cannabis on this medication that alters your brain. Maybe he could be held liable. But again, if that’s the case, I think it would have gone a long way for you if the doctor would have said, and this is why Yeah, but he didn’t do that. So you felt a little jaded. Yeah.

And I’m, I’m ultra sensitive with that stuff too. And so I probably reacted a little bit more poorly than I not poorly but overreacted. But I want to say I did bring that up to my therapist about the licensing and she made a good point. And again, this is why I have you have a group of friends that you bounce things off from because you made a good point. My wife did my therapist. She said add meds are scheduled one drugs, so they are actually like opiates. Yeah, so he wants maybe wants to know that you’re not going to abuse them. You’re not going to sell them. But I’m like I said I use cannabis. I didn’t say I sell cannabis You know what I mean? So I, I kind of get where he’s coming from. But again, we had no explanation. So we don’t know where he was coming from. Yeah. But when my therapist said that I was like, Okay, I can understand that I didn’t know that it was a schedule one drug that it was very monitored, and that he could, she said that a lot of their psychiatrists have gotten sued and lost their license because people abuse the like the Adderall and Ritalin that they gave them. So maybe that’s it again, when you don’t explain stuff.

Yeah. When you assume, what does that say, makes NASA to you and me.

So that’s where I’m at. I’m actually a little self conscious about telling you all that I do use cannabis. So if anyone out there that’s listening that does use it for I mean, you can use it for part. I mean, don’t get me wrong. I use it once in a while to get a buzz on, but it’s just like alcohol. Actually, it’s better for you than alcohol. I would love to have a discussion with you on it, because I’m super passionate about people using it. For to help them and I honestly, and I’ve said this I’d rather have my kids use pot than drink. I mean, maybe I’m wrong. I hope I don’t lose any listeners because of this. But I felt it was important to talk about.

And I appreciate you putting it out there. Yeah, took some guts vulnerability

need to seriously. Thanks for listening this time. You’re welcome.

I’m always here to listen,

I got a beep stuff. Again, we should make it explicit. But I also want you to be able to listen to threads with your kids and not worry about a random f bomb just happened. So I’m gonna be but probably the word. The ti. The other word?

Yes. Well, on that note, how to transition out of that to faith. Yeah, we’re gonna, we’re gonna stop our potty mouth and jump into a conversation about faith. I have a couple of questions that kind of came to me this week, in my funk. I did have a meeting with my pastor. And she and I were just talking about ways that I could get plugged into the church. And that just kind of led me down some trains of thought to Why do I even want to volunteer at church? So I figured that’d be a good one to bring up in our discussion about faith. Why do we each choose to volunteer Jason works with the sound and tech at church? I’m trying to find a spot that suits me. Well, right now I’ve been teaching youth group. That’s been a trip down memory lane. But why don’t we do it? I think for me, I choose to volunteer because at the end of the day, I believe wholeheartedly in the mission of our church, and the work that they’re doing. It’s incredible, super intentional. And so I found myself in a year where I’m striving to be intentional in my own development in life and whatnot. Now, I’m also in a church with other people who are on that same wavelength. And I want to give back because it’s been so helpful to me. And so I think that’s why I choose to volunteer and get plugged in. And it’s so nice to not have a paycheck attached to it. Yeah, we

thought I was interesting when I saw that you wrote that, because we talked about it this week about, you know, did we talk about on the podcast? I don’t know, like, it’s so nice to like, do the volunteer work and not have the responsibilities? Here’s where the telegram chat in the podcast, like, kind of go back and watch it. I can’t remember where we talked about No, but it’s just nice to be like, had the fun part of you know, teaching kids but like, oh, like, I mean, yes, you are still kind of the the elders of the deacons are still kind of your boss. But I mean, for the most part, you’re not going to staff meetings and getting the the nasty emails from parents or those kinds of things like that. So great. That’s for the youth director to deal with.

Yeah. And it’s gone so well, that we’re now talking Well, maybe I can come in on a rotating basis and do this kind of regularly. And I’m like, you know, I think I might actually be up for that. Right. In my previous professional life. I was a youth pastor, and didn’t like it very much. I mean, it started out great at my first church. But the second place that I worked at, it was enough for me to be like, you know, I’m good. I don’t need to do this anymore. Honestly,

I think you had a bad experience. And honestly, I think people move from churches like they do. Sales jobs. Yeah, I’m gonna throw it as far as like sales because I feel like sales jobs, you know, your five, seven years, you’re like, Okay, you know, you know, I’m

pretty much tapped out or whatever potential I’m here. Let’s go jump to another one. Right. And a lot of youth pastors just use that position as a stepping stone to get to the senior pastor role, right? The average tenure of a youth pastor is two years. Wow. Like you don’t even get to walk with a high school class through their high school year. Yeah, here’s But that’s what it is interesting. And I don’t know. That was back when I was in youth ministry now it’s been close to 10. Now has been that long, five to seven years that I’ve been out. And I think the trend I’m seeing now is, youth pastors hardly even exist on a full time basis anymore. It’s gone to like a part time role, or it’s just,

I think it’s kind of ridiculous, because, and our youth like, why are we like, not spending the amount of money? like there should be a lot of money going into youth? For sure. Like, it should be their main not their main focus one of them, but it should be a damn close second. Yeah. I mean, these are the people the future of the church, just like our future leaders, and in those kinds of things, like why are we doing a part time youth leader? I mean, I get it budgets and stuff, but maybe we need to reevaluate that. Yeah.

It’s cool, though, that Mike has been able to find his spot in a full time youth pastor role.

Yeah, I actually had a little like brain fart the other day. I’m like, What is Mike actually do? Because he doesn’t talk about work much, which is totally fine. Yeah. But I knew it was something with youth, but I was just like, but no, I’m glad that he is. It’s such an important role. It is. I think,

if I think church leaders look down on the youth direct,

I think so. Which is, yeah, that’s how it goes.

I think it’s crap. But anyways, carry on.


So why do I choose? Yeah, I’ll be honest with you. I just like the tech. I know, it sounds terrible that I say that. I

said, terrible. No, who gave you that interest? Does just appear out of nowhere know, that God might have given that right?

Um, I don’t know. I do like helping out. At the church. I just think it’s, I think it’s your duty, it’s a duty to

is such a weird, I

don’t know, I set my son the other night, he said something. He said something like duty or duty calls. And I was like, he texted me that I was like, Hi. I think it’s your duty as as a church goer to not just help with your paycheck, but help with something else. And that could be a Bible study leader or nursery, everyone should volunteer at their church. At some point, I’m not saying you have to do it all the time. there’s times where you need breaks, you know, whatever. But I think to be part of a church and to really, you know, be part of a church, you need to you need to volunteer, for sure. And I’m not judging you if you didn’t, but that’s just my opinion. And the next question you had when we go to church, what are we looking to get out of it? Why go? Wow, that is a really good question, Ben.

Yeah, I mean, when’s the last time you actually thought to yourself? Why am I doing this? And for me, I think COVID has really brought that question to the surface, because now churches going back to in person, and it’s like pulling teeth to get my kids to go well, and it’s pulling teeth to get me to go like, well, I’ve just gotten so used to tuning into a service online at my leisure.

So we’re not even doing that. And I’ve even had convert, like, every time I do production, I come home and like I hear the songs. I’m like, we need to get back like and Megan. I don’t know why. It’s dragging her feet a little bit. And I respect it. I think it’s a lot to do with the Coronavirus. I know the numbers are down. But I’m like, we’ve had trouble in our church with people keeping masks on In fact, a month ago, they asked for volunteers for people to walk around to be the person to say, you need to put your mask on. And I’m like, I’ll do that.

Are you good?

I don’t care. Megan said the same thing. She’s like, I’ll do that. Like, I feel like that’s the thing with the masks, and I’m not gonna get too long winded on it, but I don’t like them either. Yeah, I hate it. I

hate it.

I hate it. But these are the rules. Yeah, you are engaging in a business. This is the rules if you don’t like it. Sorry, you can’t shop here. Or if these are the church rules. Sorry, you can’t worship here. I know. It’s hard for leadership to do that. But I will tell you, you cannot worship here. Watch the live stream if you can’t. It’s It’s a simple thing. Yeah, it’s not that big of a deal really isn’t known. So. So yeah, I’m struggling to get the we’re not I don’t know, when we’ve watched the last live stream. It’s been a couple months. And the only church I’m getting is when I’m actually in production, which is once a month. So I’m missing it. I really am. And so I’m hopeful. I’m gonna have a conversation with Megan about it. But like, here’s the thing like with the kids, like there’s no youth thing going on right now. At least in our lives. Now. He actually goes to evergreens youth group, right. And they are meeting Okay, so at least for that, but

yeah, I think for me, I don’t know. There was a time in my life where I went to church because I had to go to church.

The job description Oh, sorry. I was because my parents forced me to Yeah. I mean,

I’ve had that too as a kid. And then as an adult, it was just kind of expected. You’re on staff at the church. So you’re gonna be at everything right. So, after I left, well, I was kind of asked to leave. You know, we didn’t go to church for probably

two months, three months, say two years, like two months. Oh, geez, Ben, relax, bro.

No, but to go from going every Sunday and multiple things on a Sunday to zero. Yeah, we just were like, hurts too much. We just don’t want to go.

Well, I would never even go Why would never go to the church you got fired from I mean, that’s

super awkward. It would be. We go now I go Now personally, because every time I go, I’m so thankful that I went. And every time I go, I walk away with If nothing else, I walk away, refreshed, because I just spent an hour and a half surrounded by God’s people. 100%. And it’s incredible. So why wouldn’t I do that on a weekly, I always

feel refreshed, but it doesn’t last long enough. And I feel like we need a small group. Like we’ve always been anti small group. Yeah, a lot of it had to do with Sullivan. Now that he’s better now. But being autistic and younger, he was a runner, no one, we always felt like no one understood him. And so and I’m sure you’ve experienced kind of some of the similar things with with miracle not so much to find. But so yeah, I think that’s part of us getting I think we need to get in a small group because I think it’ll give that refresh like a longer like, yeah, cuz Sunday. I’m like, Yes, I’m not like, Yay, Lord. But I mean, I like I should be, but I mean, like, I feel refreshed. I’m like, gosh, you know,

I love Jesus. Like, this

is gonna be a good week and Tuesday rolls around. I’m

like, EFF this stuff. I’m so pissed at live. Where’s

that God that I loved on Sunday? You know what I mean? Like, there’s he’s there. But I’m like, Where’s that energy I had on Sunday?

Right? That’s such a good point. So yeah,

I think, what am I looking to get out of it in general? I think right now I honestly, I’m just looking for a refreshment and I hope to dig in a little deeper once things start calming down, which they are, they’re getting there. Yeah, I think in a year’s time. I know I say your because I think it will be that long. I think I think Well, I think we’ll be back.

I hope, man, it’s just it’s been a long haul.

Speaking of long haul this episode, we’re over an hour. Ooh, boy. So what’s your takeaway from tonight? How are you feeling after the episode?

I feel like we work through the cannabis thing, and I understand better now. Okay, so I guess Yes, I did have that sheltered dare perspective of cannabis and probably still do and it comes out in weird ways. But that’s not the point. Like what I’m taking away is just more of how you felt in that conversation with your with the psychiatrist. Yeah, of not being heard or not being seen as somebody who can comprehend you know, his reasoning like for him to just say, this is what it is, and this is gonna be you’re gonna take a drug test in 30 days, without any real explanation or conversation around it. Yeah, I can totally see why that would be bothersome to you.

I’m not trying to digress the podcast, but Meghan brought up a good point is that I think a lot of he’s older, I think a lot of older generation, they just listened to their doctor. And they’re like, what, like, even my mother in law like, She’s like, my, my Magnum be like, why are you taking this pill? I don’t know. My doctor told me to Well, he didn’t explain to No, I just told I just said I would take it. I’m like, ooh, see, that’s different nowadays. And so this doctor is elderly. I bet he’s close to 70. So I’m thinking he’s probably like, I’m just going to tell this guy what to do. And he’s going to do it. I’m like, it doesn’t

work that way.

No, this is 2021. Yo, like, anyways, so when you’re done with your takeaway there? Yeah, I

think so. I just wanted to say, I appreciate the newfound understanding I have of the situation. It doesn’t. I guess when you initially told me the story, I was just kind of like, what’s the big deal?

Well, I

think it’s different when I’m rant because I was ranting to Ben on telegram and you’re you might be doing laundry, I might be working ease. Right, exactly. So you can’t give your full attention. Once we’re on the podcast or you know, we’re looking at each other. You’re hearing it, you’re like, Okay, I get it. So okay, so my takeaways I appreciate because I was a little bummed out when you were like, what’s the big deal? And I mean, not bummed out enough to like, say, you need to defend me but enough to be like, Oh, man, it made me think I was a little cuckoo bananas. You know what I mean? And that’s where you are, but Well,

excuse me.

So my takeaway is like, I feel like I need to have a conversation about cannabis with somebody Like an anti cannabis person, I want to have a whole podcast for that. I don’t know. I just feel like it would be good if I’m going to, if I’m going to talk about it be vulnerable bata, I want people to know, to learn, like I’m not the expert by any means, but learn about what it is and how it helps and those kind of things. So maybe other people can just reduce the stigma like, right same with mental health. You know what I mean? Like, let’s just try to reduce the stigma. So that’s what I’m looking so if you’re out there, and you’re, I mean, you don’t actually have to be anti cannabis. If you want to have a conversation around it if you want to be I don’t want to say educated because I’m not like a teacher of this but like, have a conversation around it reach out to us at Hello at threads and I would love to talk to you they’re not to come in the studio. You can do it remote, but I think it would be a good a good thing.

I think so.

So guys, thank you so much for listening to threads podcast, really appreciate it again, real quick. Ben’s gonna buy you coffee if you do a review. Review don’t matter the stars but you have to write a review, email a screenshot of that and then we’ll send you a coffee and then yeah, threads podcast comm for everything newsletter. You can get to buy me a coffee from there and much, much more. Alright guys, have a good night. See ya.

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