Transcription Episode 117

Hi, guys, welcome to threads podcast life unfiltered. Thank you for joining us tuning in, like Ben likes to say, I’m super ecstatic about the episode tonight, tomorrow or whenever you’re listening to this, but we’re recording at night at seven o’clock in the studio. So I’m excited about that. But before we get into tonight’s topic, Ben is going to talk about what threads are, what threads is. And, yeah, and then we’ll go from there.

All right, well, threads, podcasts, life unfiltered is all about living life unfiltered, we want to be people who are authentic, who are willing to be vulnerable. We want to be a show where it’s okay to talk about things that are sometimes difficult or awkward, or uncomfortable to talk about. And that is the premise of our show. Before I tell you what we’re doing tonight, I’m going to toss it back to Jason. He’s got some of those housekeeping things that he’s so good at taking care of.

So one of the things that was probably your shortest, like threads intro ever, I was not even prepared.

What gotcha. I

know you did. So of course, you know, we all are trying to grow the show you as a listener oses podcast hosts and one of the things that moves the needle a lot is rating and reviewing the podcast. If you go to Apple podcasts and do that, that would be great. We have not had one in a while. I mean, even if you hate us at least give me five stars and right you hate us. Apple doesn’t actually look at what is written they only look at that something was written so if you if you hate him, we’ll drop the F bomb already. I was like if you effing hate us, if you hate us, you know, give us five stars. And then

tell us why you

tell us nasty at least give us a five stars if you hate us, and you’re gonna give a one star drop dead. Anyways, and then of course, we have a newsletter that I haven’t created yet, because no one’s signed up for it.

I think one person sign that they did you. Oh, you got

me all excited. I was like, holy crap.

I gotta get one out.

I wasn’t gonna get it out for February. But no one signed up for it. So I did not create one because again, it’s work but I only want to do work if someone’s getting the content. Yes, that makes sense. And then of course you can support us at buy me a slash threads. What is buying me a coffee. It’s like Patreon but a little bit more simple of a format instead of like being committed to this a monthly charge, which you can do that as well. If you just Have you listened to an episode like Damn, that was so good. I love these guys. I’m gonna buy Ben and Jason and coffee and you know, 10 bucks. It goes a long way. It goes into the budget to promote the show. And all those things. We don’t take any money from any of this. any money that we get. We get no money for threads. But threads is kind of under an umbrella of our production company Hey guys Media Group any money we get we typically just like upgrade equipment make try to make things sound better. So eventually we would like to take money,

it’d be nice. It would be nice

but we’ll get that’s not our goal for the podcast. Our goal is to connect with you and and those kind of things but if you do feel inclined to support us, we would love for you to do that. Go to buy me a coffee comm slash threads and buy me a I’m a big big coffee and you can buy Ben a Starbucks because he doesn’t like Big B.

I like the teddy bear. Big B that’s it.

Yeah, I can’t drink those those fancier drinks anymore. Unless I put like half the sugar. And because I’m so used to drink coffee at home with just a little splash of creamer in. Yeah, you go there and get a normal one. You’re like, Oh my gosh, I think I have diabetes right now.

Nice. Diabetes in a cup. Pretty much as we get started in jumping into our topic of tonight. Just wanted to take a minute and check in and see how we’re showing up to this moment. We did this last week with Don and I really liked it. I felt like it was a really good way to start. Just kind of check in what’s on your mind. Where are you at? And then we’ll get into the episode.

Yeah, I think it’s a I almost feel like that’s a better icebreaker than sometimes some of the icebreakers we’ve done recently. It’s It’s It’s like 15 minutes, right? You know what I mean? Which is fun. And I think it maybe is more impactful for a guest But for us, I think it’s let’s just get into it. Yeah, you know what I mean? Where yet so what about you? Where are you at tonight?

Tonight? This week? Whatever day you’re listening to this. I don’t know.

It’s Friday for us. So

it’s Friday here. And I quit my job last week without having another backup plan. And it was a big step of faith. And then on Monday this week, I received a job offer.

Congratulations. Thank you.

And it’s like a Good offer. I’m like, Whoa, this type of thing actually exists. And it’s a big boy job and I’m kind of excited about it.

Yeah, I’m excited for you. I, you know, the the benefits I heard that you’re getting, and all that stuff. Sounds amazing. Well, you know, the other company sound amazing too. But when it came down to it, like, she’s not making any money like

this. Yeah,

I always my bosses always tease me too, because they’re like, it’s all about the money for you. I’m like, Well, I’m not here for volunteer time, right? I enjoy working here. But I want to get paid like, right, you know what I mean? So it’s just, I don’t know, that’s coming from the owner who that’s his baby. So I’m sure he makes a lot of money here. So he doesn’t have to worry about the money,

right. So that’s how I’m showing up excited. Okay, like, and just like this feeling of I did that. Like, I listened to my gut. That was saying, you know what, this is working, and it’s probably not gonna work. So it’s probably best to just cut ties now, instead of dragging this out even further. So I did. And the relief I felt was pretty amazing. Not gonna lie when I bounced and said I was done.

You know, it’s interesting. It brings up the the fallacy thing we talked

about, what’s it called? Again? The sunk cost fallacy.

Yeah. And it applies so much in life. And I I’m just, I’m actually quite impressed that you just said I fit in like, I mean, you were almost not there long enough to have that fallacy because you’re like, Okay, what was it three months?

It was? Well, four months, or maybe one one of that month was training. So yeah. Yeah,

I think it was, I think it’s a good move for you. I like I said at the beginning, when you took that job, I’m like, Man, that’s tough. Like, if you have a dry month, holy balls.


And you thought you could handle it. And it’s okay to not handle it. I wouldn’t have done it in the first place. But of course, I’m always gonna support you.

I took a risk. Yeah, it didn’t turn up my favor. So

I left. Yeah, I’m proud of you for like picking it up and saying, All right, this is not for me to move on.

Yep. So

me coming tonight. So we both do it. We both do the cell. So I think we’ve done at the same time, like, three times tonight. Yeah, I like you start it was so and you end it with so I think I do it too. I’m not trying to be critical. So don’t take it that way. I think I’m gonna be thinking about it all night. I’m coming into the night, I actually told them before we started, I’m like, I’m feeling a little. And don’t take that the wrong way. People that are listening. And you know, I always put my energy into the show, but like I edited threads last night for the episode that came out today. So basically, it’s like four hours of threads in the last 24 hours. And that’s okay. It’s just, yeah, that’s how I’m kind of coming in tonight. But I had a good week I took today off from work. That’s really nice. With gig work. You’re just like, hey, today sounds like a good day to take off. So I got to spend time with my family today, which sometimes is hard for me. We actually did. We ran errands together. And we got them lunch. We went to Krispy Kreme and got doughnuts fun. Do you know that if you have a is and you bring it into Krispy Kreme, they will give you a dozen donuts free? What?

Oh, diabetes once again. On a report card, I love that diabetes once again. So yeah,

we kind of did that today. It was kind of fun. No major issues. And if you as you’ve listened to this podcast about my struggle, spending time with a family, which sounds weird. I love my family. But it just I don’t know. That’s a topic for another day. Yes, but that’s how I’m coming in.

But at least you can acknowledge it. Yeah. And sit with it and try to work on it right and not just pretend it’s not there. Right. So yeah, that is very good. Well, as we jump into this evenings topic, it will be helpful for you our listener to know what bucket we are in. As you may know, if you are a longtime listener, we like our buckets around here. Each episode we tend to fill up one of three buckets, sometimes more sometimes all three. But those buckets are faith, mental health and uncomfortable conversations. Some nights we hit them all other nights not so much. Today we are going to be spending time in I would call uncomfortable conversation world. And to do that I have an article that I found it’s basically nine things you should never do in life. And this is put out by some bullshit site

right the it from independent from India independent

Yeah, from the independent which is like I don’t know, some website that puts out articles, I’m not really sure to be honest. But it is from the indie, by the independent. Thank you for filling in that gap because it was not on my screen. You’re a lifesaver. So I read this article the other day trying to think of something that we can talk about, I knew that our our bucket that we wanted to fill was uncomfortable conversations. But we’ve talked about a lot of uncomfortable things, we’ve covered abortion, we’ve covered physician assisted suicide, like all these things. So I was trying to figure out what in the world we’re going to do. And somehow my googling took me to this article of nine things you should never do in life. And I really liked it. I had to get past all the pop up ads, and all the banner ads and all the cookie notifications. But when I finally got to the text, I was like, Damn, these are really good. So we’re gonna address each one of the nine. Hopefully, we’ll get to all nine, but no promises, we’ll see how long winded we are on them.

I kind of feel we have to get out to at least say all nine, right? If even if we don’t discuss them.

Yeah, for sure. The way we’re going to do this is will each kind of share how we experienced each thing. And then if we have feedback or input for the other, about how we’ve seen it in their lives, their life grammar, then we’ll cover that as well. But we’re not going to be super awkward and enforce each other to say something about the other person. But if it comes up naturally, then we’ll run with it. This is uncomfortable, because we haven’t really tried anything like this before. I’m honestly not sure if it’s gonna work. But threads is about being vulnerable, open and all those other feeling words. So here we go. The list is these. You want me to just read all nine of them? No,

I think people will get confused. Like so you can read all nine, but then we have to go back and read it again. So I just hit it

a line number one, or sorry, nine things you should never do in life. Number one, lie to yourself. You can trick yourself into believing something, but that usually has an expiration date. Maybe it’s time to take yourself more seriously, and be honest with yourself. Why? Because that is the most important relationship you will ever have in my life. I think back to my most recent job experience, I did try to trick myself into believing that things were gonna turn around. But I just, it just got to a point where I was like, I’ve tried believing this for the last month, I still don’t have much of a paycheck. Hmm, maybe it’s time to reevaluate. So that comes to mind for me. Another lie that I’ve told myself is probably that they can’t do it. Like letting myself off the hook too easily. And instead of pushing through challenging times, just whatever, screw it. I’m done. Yeah. So I think that’s a lie. I saw myself. In the past, it’s been pretty often just the fact that I can’t do this. Yeah,

I think I fall in that that second category too, especially when it comes to I don’t feel like a lot of it. This is it doesn’t really hit my emotional button saying like, Oh, I’m lying about the life I’m leaving is a lie or something like that. But like fixing things or doing projects, I lie to myself and say I can’t do it, which I struggle with it should I wonder if me saying you can’t do this, like prevents me from being trying new challenges and things like that. But this one didn’t really hit hard for me. Yeah. I don’t know. I guess when I actually the first thing. I read through these before the show and the first thing that popped in my head is lie to yourself. I thought about my ex wife. It just seemed like the first line you can trick yourself into believing something. And that’s what she she lied so much. You believed her lies. Oh, man, it was nuts. Wow. So that’s kind of the first thing that came to mind for me with that. But yeah, that you shouldn’t lie to yourself. You don’t work on trying to be I mean, what’s the alternative? I know the alternative Don’t lie to yourself. But I mean, right? How would you approach that? You know, is it just a conversation in your head like you Talk about your job, and how you go like, I’m not gonna lie to myself anymore. This is bullshit. I need to be out. Yeah. How do you is that this is a conversation you have with your head back and forth,

or in a journal or thinking yeah, I think absolutely. It’s a conversation. So one statement that stood out to me was the most important relationship you will have? Is the relationship with yourself. I’m not sure I buy that.

Well, you have to buy it because Don talked about it on the last episode number her husband talk about her loving herself. And yes,

I do. Yeah. So. But here’s where I’m coming from. And maybe this is a sheltered bend moment. But I’ve grown up and always been taught to believe that the most important relationship is your relationship with God. But I counter that with how can you have an appropriate relationship with God? If you don’t have an appropriate relationship with yourself?

But what level? Are you supposed to love yourself? I mean, this is a deep one, because I look like, I feel like I do like it right on the surface. I feel like I do. But I honestly, I don’t know deep down if I do.

Well, Scripture tells us to love our neighbor. How, as ourselves. Exactly. So then we owe at least as much love to ourselves that we do to our neighbor,

I guess what is the definition of loving yourself, though? That’s the broader ness of it, like, does it mean like I give myself self care? Or do I actually, legitimately look and say, I love myself and like, yeah, swing my arm like, Yay, I don’t know. Exactly. I don’t know how you you describe it or what the definition is, right?

I think if we’re approaching this from a Christian perspective, acknowledging the fact that as salam says, We are fearfully and wonderfully made, and celebrating that and living into that, and and realizing that we’re not a mistake, that we’re not messed up. I think when we think thoughts that are demeaning to us, that that is not loving ourselves, it’s the opposite. So what is loving ourselves look like? Well, I think looking out for our interests is important. Not all the time. And yes, we do need to put others first but can’t do that, until we’ve truly taken care of ourselves.

So what comes to mind to me is like, as you brought that up is like having confidence? Yeah, I think having but to a level like I like how you brought it up, not too much. Because you can have self conscious, be cocky, and it does get worse. But I think if you have confidence, I think people that lack confidence, don’t love themselves as much as they probably should. Yeah, it’s just my personal I

would agree with that. And I think when it comes to what’s the what’s the appropriate level of love for yourself, I would say love yourself enough so that you can truly love others. And, you know, if your if your love of yourself, is keeping you from investing in other relationships, that’s probably a Yeah, I think that would be problematic at that point. So, Okay,

moving on, say I can’t do everything that looks difficult, which kind of applies to what we just talked about. Don’t let fear guide you through life. Next time you feel like saying I can’t replace it with Why not? There’s something really powerful when we leave a little space open for possibilities instead of shutting the door in our own face. Yeah, better to ask ourselves where the resistance is coming from rather than giving it given. Geez, Jason, I read like a champ last episode rather than give in to it. That’s tough. Get into it immediately without a fight. Yeah, I mean, I do that for a life.

Just give in?

No, no, like, yeah, yeah, just give in and say I can’t do it. As much as I maybe portray myself as super confident and I am confident. I’m confident like, I’m confident things that I know like podcasting, right. Like someone could ask me a question. I’d be like, I could talk to you for an hour. I’m confident that in some of the stuff like we talk about construction or whatever, I’m not confident because I don’t know how to do it. It doesn’t. I always make make it out to be like I’m a I’m a failure, because I can’t do that. But I need to like think you’re not trained in being a mechanic. Right? Yeah, no, like Dave brought up on the episode. We’re like throwing back all these all these episodes that we’ve had Dave brought up.

I don’t remembering them. I know. Right.

Isn’t that good?

So what about you?

Yeah, anything that looks difficult, I would say up until probably the last 12 months. If something would have Look difficult. I just wouldn’t bother. I was very specific with what I put my energy into, with the exception of my family. And I think because I was so focused on my daughter’s needs, and my son’s, but my daughter’s needs were far more pronounced during that season. That was about the only thing that I could handle that was difficult in life. So everything else that seemed difficult, I just didn’t deal with it. And well, that’s not super helpful, either. Well, I

have one caveat. You did tackle some pretty big waterways with your kayak and more like, oh, why didn’t you do like a couple big ones? And you’re like, Oh, we need help. It’s too much or something like that. Yeah. And Andy, I know that’s not emotionally. But that the first thing that came to mind, I was like, you’ve done a pretty aggressive kayak ride.

Well, that was maybe I guess that was, I don’t know. It feels like that was fresh, like, fresher than I feel like we were just starting the upswing with miracle.

Could be that point. Well, that was one that more just the challenge of how long it was and those kind of things not because the kids couldn’t handle Yeah, they can’t handle shit. But

well, it’s funny, because on our vacation this summer, we went whitewater kayaking. Yeah, and I thought we were all going to be on like a big group raft. I thought it was gonna be more rafting but it was high individual. Yeah, and individual, little kayaks that are inflatable. And so she was by herself. And I was so worried about her I would be too, so worried, but she did it. And that was a huge moment in our family because here’s the kid who has been having all the difficulty who has been just she had just been through it. Yeah. And we gave her an out we allowed her to say no to something that looked difficult. But she wanted to do it. Yeah. And she rocked it like there are several times where I would see an empty kayak floating towards me and I’d be like oh shit miracle flipped. Yeah. Nope. Each time it was some random person and we’re COVID just come floating by and wave as she went by other times she just plain out ignored me but that’s okay. But she did it so that

was huge. That actually sounds kind of fun like whitewater How am I even a podcaster I cannot even speak white water rafting but not in a raft like in a kayak. Yeah, so it must have been like a like a medium level rapids must have been right yep. Yeah, see, I would want to do something like that but then work up to like a little bit cuz you see those videos of those crazy

Oh, we have some crazy one. Oh

my god. You guys have to wear helmets.

Yeah, yeah, that’s

smart. Just in case you hit a rock or something. Yeah,

I mean, there were times where we were the guide would say if you want calm water go to the right or to the left if you want a real fun trip, but you might fall out go straight through miracle went straight through

cuz he’s a kid kids have no fear I got so we need to take some of that energy and no fear and like bottle it up in like, Oh, I I need a little bit. Uh, no fear,

right? No kidding. Remember those shirts?

Wonder I was gonna bring it out but I did. I figured you wouldn’t even know.

Come on that sheltered. I had no fear. You know Why though? Because there was a Christian version I’m sure fear it was not

authentic. No fear gear. I’m sure. I’m sure Do you remember the the Johnson t shirts to like it was like a big Johnson It was like, what am I trying to? Not a caveat to talking about penis or having a big penis. But what’s the word? Not sarcasm. You know what I’m trying to say? Like new endo. Thank you. Thank you Ben. So it was like all these like trying to get away with saying you had a big Johnson or I take my big Johnson here. You know don’t remember though. Never seen them. Oh, man. Oh, man, that

surely probably made a Christian version. I take my big cross here.

I will big Johnson and the T shirts came up first. Anyways, nice.

One last thing I have on that one would be something I’ve observed with you. In this room.

Oh boy.

I know. To two occasions The first is not as loaded as the second so we’ll start there. Back when we were pretty fresh. And having studio equipment and everything. There were times where you just couldn’t figure out how to make it work. And so I remember one time, we were supposed to record on a Sunday afternoon, nothing was working. And you’re just like, I can’t do it. I look at that. And I guess I’m intrigued because I felt like in that moment, you said, I can’t do it instead of figuring it out.

So I don’t know. What’s your point of that?

I’m just letting you know, at the time where I saw you say that you couldn’t do so.

Yeah, I mean, I do remember that. I mean, I guess you get to the point. It’s like, you’re still here. We can’t record. I mean, what are we supposed to do? Right. You know what I mean? I did give the college try for a while. Did

30 minutes, I think. Yeah.

And I don’t even remember what the solution or what was probably some stupid. Everything tech related is a button push. You’re not hitting something. Right. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I definitely have said that. That was such a long time ago. It was I can’t imagine. Like, how did I react though? Like, because that was early on? I mean, gosh, it probably was it wasn’t the right. Your podcast. It was a thread. It was thread thread. I wonder how pissed I was. I bet I was pissed.

You were but you bottled it up pretty well. Me? I’m sure. As soon as I walked out, you were probably cussing up a storm MRF for?

Yeah, yeah, I try not to attack stuff to give up. But sometimes you just have to walk away and come back to it. Yeah, figure it out. But can I

bring up something that’s maybe a little bit more sensitive than that? For sure. So when we did the 100th episode, Oh, man. Yeah. That was the time where I saw you. And it’s so unlike you, because typically, when I think of Jason, I don’t think of a quitter. I think of somebody who just fights to the bitter end and just gets shit done. But those two instances stand out to me as times where you just were like, can’t do it. Mountain.

So refresh my mind what the issue was at the time. Do you remember your memory is amazing.

Um, we were talking about? Oh, I think what happened was, and I’m sure Megan and Andy will be able to chime in and fill in the gaps that I miss. But it seemed as if you were trying to control or not control. But

yes, yes. Yes. So it was like, get up on the mic. Like it started out that way. Right? It was Oh, yeah.

So what happened was, you thought you were being funny. And you kind of dug into Andy a bit. So that’s the first area that made it kind of awkward and weird was she didn’t like that very much. Right? And kind of called you on it. Yes. And then I think Megan did or sad, or I don’t know, something else happened. And then you’re just like, I’m out. Well,

and I am sorry about that. No one knows about that. And you do now but our 100th episode? Yeah, we had, we had all set to record and I just said eff it. And I went outside and and I felt bad and embarrassed later on that I did that because you guys had left and man, why is it I’m always effing up on all this stuff. Like,

not trying to throw you off the bus?

No. And I would I would have stopped you if I didn’t want you to talk about it. But yeah, man, that was a rough night. And we fixed it. And we went on to record it and you guys never would have known but yeah, that started out with Andy cuz I think the problem was we hadn’t we hadn’t connected with her. Her and I hadn’t connected in a while. And while we’re a lot of like, I think she wasn’t expecting the heat that came out. I mean, I literally was just messing around. But then she took it the wrong way. And then I got immediately defensive. And then Megan said something and

I felt like I had to be on my wife’s side even though I understand where Jays Yeah,

you were problem. And I was like, you had said something that set me off. And that’s when I put my headphones down. And I was like, I’m done. But while that we are digressing on these, I

know that staying on track now with I can’t do everything that looks difficult. Yeah.

I don’t have anything for you. I

don’t know. Like, I was just thinking about that question. And those are the two things that popped up because it was just unlike you. Yeah, it’s not normally. Your mo like, if I were to pick between us to who’s more likely to quit when things get hard, I would say 100%. me Yeah.

So those two instances just stood out in my mind does what was interesting that night and I’ve talked about before, sometimes when I get angry, I have out of body experiences. And it’s very bizarre like I’m, I’m going through the motions of what’s going on and I’m Kinda like, you need to stop what you’re doing but I continue to do it. And that kind of i was i that happened that night and and why I didn’t just pull my shit together and come inside and like look it I’m sorry. Let’s let’s work on it but yeah that was that was shitty. Yeah I’m glad you’re still my friend. I’ve I’ve messed up quite a bit just make our podcasts explicit.

Might as well alright I’m not perfect either I

know you’re not

I feel like lately your latest thing is well why don’t you ever ask out Ben like why are you so perfect? Well, I don’t know if I am you’re not

perfect, but I’m like jealous of people that have. Well, you either hide it really well or not. But normally normal functioning brains. Yeah, I’m bored. The wiring may be off just a smidge. But right, but most of it had connected correctly. And again, I don’t know you may be hiding it. I don’t know. I mean, I’m pretty sure you’ve told me everything but I don’t wouldn’t expect you to. You don’t have to but but yeah, it was that a bird that was

really falling apart over here. All right, we’re gonna jump

to the next one. But I have to go to so big Johnson t shirts. Okay, this is what I have to go back to it. So here’s a shirt. It’s like, half naked ladies and like bikinis. This is big Johnson tequila lick suck and swallow. Nevermind the salty taste. You know, I’m sure I probably saw those shirts and didn’t know what they meant. So it was lost on me big Johnson bungee cords. While there’s certain things you shouldn’t do even with a big Johnson. So the innuendo like the tequila one that’s really bad. Right? That’s so crazy. And Dr. Johnson’s brand tongue depressors. I mean, you can buy these shirts. Wow,

that is crazy.

I can’t believe people wore those in public.

So this getting off topic again. But I just have to throw this in there. Go for it. So back when the internet was brand new, everything was text based. And I came across the list of your mom jokes. And I was in seventh grade. I didn’t know. I didn’t know what the term blow job, man.

I’m actually glad I don’t know if I did or not either. But that’s

so I printed out these jokes. And I think I must have printed two copies. They left one at home and I took the other to school. Well, about halfway through the day, just before lunch, my mom shows up at school. And she like comes and knocks on the classroom door and calls me out. She’s like, Ben, do you have that list of jokes? I was like, yeah, it’s in my backpack. She’s like, give it to me. Give it to me now, please was like Why? Like, there’s some language in there that you don’t understand. And it’s not appropriate. I need you to give me the jokes. So I was planning to feed him to my friends at lunch. So she caught me just in time good out of her for like

trying to save your ass. Right? You

know what I mean? It could have gotten me in a lot of trouble at the Christian school. BJ. Yeah,

I want to know what that joke is now. Right? Google blow job mom jokes.

Wow. Well, the next one here. Number three is have zero goals to aspire to. If you’re drifting through life without having any specific goal in mind, of what you’d like to do in the future, then you’re not being respectful of your own time on this planet. That one is something that again, I’ve wrestled with a lot over the last 10 years for sure. And definitely when I left youth ministry as a career, and I just, I was honestly looking for anything, anything any career that would get me out of church work. And so for a while, I don’t think I really had many goals, because I wasn’t even sure what the hell I was doing. Like, oh, you’re a baby.

Yeah. Like, when you’re in your 20s you don’t know shit, like, Yeah, but what do you what goals do you have now? Like, can you rattle off a couple of things like your goals for life? Exactly. I can’t either.

I mean, I can think of goals for the year or goals for the month but not like, Alright, what’s the goal for your goal for the year, quarterly. I’m stepping up my steps each day, and it’s gradually growing throughout the year so that at the end of the year, I’ll be hitting an average of 10,000 steps a day. And also, actually to that goal going to the gym three times a week. Okay, so that’s a goal that I have in the short term. But as far as the long term, I do think that one of my goals for Andy and I is to eventually own a house or a condo, on a lake somewhere, so that we can have the kayaks and just go paddle around the lake instead of having to load them up and everything else.

What are you doing to obtain that goal?

I’m starting a new job with a really good comp package. And

so when I looked at this, the goal thing I felt I looked at stuff more deeper than just like walking steps, which is totally fine. It’s not a cut on you. But I looked at and goes, I don’t have any goals. And it makes me really think about I think about life a lot. Like, what do we even do in here? Like, what is the point? I mean, yeah, as a Christian, I know the point. Sure, but like, doesn’t it? Isn’t it weird to you, like God created us or like, okay, you’re gonna go live 100 years, and you’re gonna die, you’re gonna work your whole frickin life. And then, you know, never take time off and never enjoy yourself and grind grind, grind, grind, grind, Dad,

I don’t think that’s what he intended for us.

Well, why is it like that?

Because that’s called the American dream, I don’t know. But when I look at it, I look at as God gave us, X amount of years on this planet. What can we create with those years? Yeah, because if we’re truly made in God’s image, like the Bible says, then we’re creators. So stuff like right now, I think this is the kind of thing that God’s like, do more of that. Yeah,

I just I struggle with the goals. I mean, everyone can be like, like you said, like, I want to buy a lake house, which would be great and stuff like that. But I I don’t have any goals like, and it bothers me. When I saw that one, it was a little quote, unquote, triggering sure I had to pivot in my journey. And I don’t know, I, I think I need to write that down. But I also think you need a plan. When you write those goals down, like you have like with the steps, you have a tiered plan of like, each quarter, you’re going to increase it, which I really like. But I think it’s something that I need to kind of look inside. And I mean, we have a goal, we have a goal of like getting the next bathroom remodeled. So save a bunch of money this year. And but I don’t know, those don’t feel very impactful to me like, like a goal of leaving a legacy for your kids of money, let’s say and like, what am I doing to do that?

I don’t know. This, this one this one could go on and on. But it sure could. But one thing that I think of when it comes to goals is what are my goals for threads?

Yeah, interesting.

I kind of had a reality check a little bit, because I don’t know that I have specific goals for threads. Yeah. And I think if I did, perhaps that would motivate me to be dare I say it a little bit more invested in threads. And likewise, we don’t really have any stated goals for Hey, guys Media Group. Yeah. And so I’m wondering if we did if that would somehow motivate me to be more involved. Yeah. And I

brought that up with you guys, too. It’s just I get wild hairs. And I’m like, what are we doing here? We’re just like, we’re just stagnant. Like, not everyone’s listening to threads. Like why that half of our listen to the threads and don’t get me wrong. And Ben says he’s not motivated with threads. He loves recording. He loves sitting down and doing this right. He loves everything about it. But yeah, that’s true. I don’t we don’t really have any goals. I mean, I guess my goal right now for threads is if someone new reaches out like that, I know that’s not really a goal. That’s just like up to hope. It’s a whole bunch of milestone and be like, hey, this was impactful to me. Sure. The whole Dave when Dave was on, he’s becoming like a 3d and that’s been huge. Oh, yeah. Which I really like that. So what what goal Can we put put each other on the spot right now while recording what goal can we have for threads that’s attainable. Have you? I mean, you obviously thought about it. I didn’t think about it.

I mean, I thought about the fact that they didn’t have me thinking what they should be. You know, but while I’m on the spot, I would say

like if you had a fish wish, although that we shouldn’t do that, because that might not be attainable. I would

love to have to buy me a coffee sponsors. Yeah, I

call them patriot memberships. Yeah, there. Yeah. That would mean a lot to Yeah, to

the world. I just need to it’s not even the money.

It’s just the fact that they believe in what we’re doing. And they’re really in Yeah, they have skin in the game. You know what I mean? And that’s for sure. And that’s why I think a lot of people do Patreon. I mean, yeah, there’s Patreon that people make their whole living on which, hey, if you guys want to do that I am all in. I love doing fertilization, but this this this, this is much better, much more fun for me. That’s, I like that. I like that. I don’t know. I don’t know what goals I have for threads. I just want to I want to grow. I want to grow every month. Like I want our numbers to go up. And it’s not just numbers. It just means we’re being more impactful. Yeah, man, when that lady in New Jersey, we don’t even know who she was. I think it was jersey. Somewhere out east. Yeah. messaged us about metal, right? I was like,

Yes. Yeah.

Like we never heard from her again. She never emailed again. I don’t even know what happened.

Yeah, but she reached out. That was

a craziest thing. That was That was awesome. It was so cool. Especially not somebody in our circle, right?

No kidding.

Just I feel like Ben and I, every time we get a like on Facebook. Oh, I think we’ve talked about Ben like searches. And like the last two, we don’t know where they’re from, which is super exciting. Absolutely. It’s been awesome.

So do you think it’s harmful? So you don’t you don’t strike me as being sold on the idea of goals for life necessarily? Do you think it’s harmful to not have goals?

I don’t think you can be as effective if you don’t have goals. I think you’re swimming around in this huge aquarium by just hitting the wall, which I do a lot. I even I tell you, like, all my processes are all in my head. Like, why don’t I have it written down like that? My goal? I’ve tell you like, every quarter, I’m gonna write everything down. Because what happens if I get hit by a truck? Right? I mean, obviously, threads probably won’t go on. Who knows? Who knows what happens. But I feel like that’s just an example. That’s really not a goal. But I feel like I get hit by a truck. Well, no, I mean, I feel like without a goal, you’re just kind of drifting through life. I mean, yes, my goal is to bring people to Christ. I mean, that’s the religious side of me. My goal is to raise these kids to be good adults. So they are a holes to other people when they walk down the street. And so they don’t have your experience of childhood exactly like those. Those are my goals, I guess. But it’s not something I think about regularly. And I think it I think it can hurt you if you don’t have goals.

I would agree with that. Because

you only got this certain amount of life. If you do have something like bounce in your head, maybe you should try to apply or write it down. Because you could be 18 years old. And what all these people on their deathbed, like, I wish I would have spent more time with my family. I wish I would have done this. I wish it’s never like, that was great. It’s I wish, I wish I wish, right? Or

I wish I something that people would never say, I wish I just worked more hours. Like, really? I don’t think anybody ever gets to that point and says that. So yeah, maybe your goal should be investing time. us listen, they’re not you as Jason, but invest your time wisely so that you don’t get to your deathbed with regret. Yeah,

I would hate to get to my bed and say, I wish I would have done this. Yeah, no kidding. Cuz you’re like, You’re, you’re screwed. Like you can’t, you’re done you, you had your chance, and you didn’t do it. Right. And we got to get going. All right. Number four, depend on other people for constant love and attention or entertainment. Don’t use other people to get your momentary emotional fix. Why? Because you will become helpless when they don’t have time for you are no longer route. Instead, build your emotional structure so that you can provide for yourself, don’t look for entertainment elsewhere. find things that are fun that you can do on your own. Live your life in such a way that you like yourself. It’s imperative to meet maintaining happiness. And above all, believe in yourself. The traits and abilities provided value to others. It’s interesting, there’s like so many avenues you can go down to. I look at this. And the first thing that comes to mind in my head is the love and attention part where I could never be without a girlfriend. I really struggled with that really well. Like now if Megan and I got divorced, I’d be like, I’m done. Like, I’m not getting married again. I might have a girlfriend, she can come over, you know, but she ain’t staying here. I say that now but like, but but I think, I don’t know, it obviously has something to do with my childhood and maybe me not having a strong female role model when I was around a female where I was paranoid about being alone. So that’s what comes to mind for me. I don’t I have the stuff like entertainment. I can entertain myself. I have fun things I do myself. I don’t really need anyone to entertain me. Yeah, but that’s kind of how I look at that one.

Yeah. Well, I will go ahead and put the spotlight on me and acknowledge the fact that I like attention.

I know you do. And everyone that listens to this

show knows you do. And this was kind of a hard one for me to swallow because even little things like the rundown that I make for each episode. Oh

geez, here we go.

I send it to you. In a day before, and a lot of times I hear nothing and so there’s this like, anxiety in my head of, does he not like it? And it’s like I put so much stock on whether somebody likes or doesn’t like something that I Why don’t

you have that conversation today? Or did you get triggered when I gave you shit back right away instead of saying like, Listen man, I have if you could do me a favor, could you just like let me know hey, got it looks good. And because it causes me anxiety if you came up with it at that, but you came with it with a remark of I don’t know what it was. I think I said, Did you get a URL? That link was the rundown?

Yeah, random link.

Yeah, I know what it is. Well, I

didn’t know if you knew. Well, I


I don’t know. Um, so it just, but it’s on me because I just allow myself to go. I don’t know. It’s almost like I’m dependent on like that hit of attention. Like, okay, he saw it. He’s gonna love it. Or I don’t know. Yeah,

I mean, he says the last link is the rundown lol and I know I wrote antsy wrong. The word I was looking for was antsy. I said, I know, why are you so antsy with the rundown, like, and then he writes antsy. And I was like, like, I don’t read it. Like if I don’t respond, you get fussy. And then you said you do the same when I don’t respond and lurk. I want you to make sure you see the rundown because I know it’s past been important to you with have enough time to review. Anyways.

So that’s just one instance. But I haven’t done this as much. But in the past, I would send Jason the most random pictures or messages just to get his attention. And it’s like, I needed that. For some reason. In that moment, I just needed to be acknowledged. And for a while my Facebook was the same way. I still post on Facebook, just not necessarily to the extent I used to. But I definitely have a need for attention. And I’m working on it. I think everyone likes when you post something creative.

or whatever, on Facebook or social media, everyone likes to get that like,

right. I mean, it’s a dopamine

it is a dopamine hit. And there’s been studies about it that they are trying to thinking about taking likes away. I know Instagram was for a while or followers because these kids were like obsessed with having followers. And if they didn’t have enough, they didn’t feel like they were worthy enough, right. And those platforms should be used for something for stuff you like to do. Or you enjoy. I mean, I don’t know, I get what you’re saying though. I do like when people like the show, or whatever. And not, you know, Mike vandrie I mean, don’t get me wrong. I love Mike. But I know he loves the show. He hates him hitting the like button doesn’t really move doesn’t give me that dopamine hit.

Right. And I think the key word in all of this is the first word of the statement depend.

Yes. True.

I don’t think I’m dependent on it now. But I think I was close at some point. And yeah, not so distant past. And it’s awkward dimension because I don’t know. That’s, that’s just me.

It’s okay. It’s, you know, I appreciate you being vulnerable. I mean, it’s so everyone has their thing. I mean, I think for a while I was like that too. Like, if you look at my Facebook now I don’t post shit. Except What about the podcast or promoting someone else? Like, I don’t even that’s, I mean, I don’t do that anymore. Yeah, I used to be like that. I mean, I used to be like I post stuff, trying to get likes and stuff. And now I just could give two shits about it. You know, probably because all the political talk that really turned me off. No kidding. But yeah, I don’t depend on anyone for that. But.

And that’s one thing I appreciate about you. So I know we’re supposed to say, Well, I guess this is in the same vein of thought. You don’t struggle with this at all. And I aspire to be like you in that. You just you just don’t have any apps to give. Yeah, when it comes to what people think about you. And you’re not dependent on them for that, that hit or attention.

But that comes with a double edged sword, as we talked about with Don Taylor, like I have no apps to give, but that also affects the positive parts of my life where I should give the F’s, right. And But no, it is a it is a freeing feeling just to be like I really don’t care what you think about me. And if you think about me this way, like, I guess that’s on you. And if we can’t be friends because of it. As long as I’m being appropriate, right, then that’s your problem.

Yeah, you should shave your beard and get into sales. You do really well.

I can do sales in this beard. I need to cooperate a little bit. I like sales. If I’m passionate about something. I I can sell anything. I just, I have this ATMEGA and I have this charm, and I can turn it on and I can just not like I’m lying to you about the product. But I just know, I can read people really well and be like, Okay, I know where how to get into this person, you know? Yeah, you know, you know those tip. Oh, yeah, tricks to for sure.

You got the next one? Sure. The next one is obsess about other people’s things, or words.

Makita relates to the next one, the first line talks on Facebook,

it’s easy to get sucked into the latest updates from your Facebook or Instagram friends. Try to take everything you’ve seen here with a grain of salt. Chances are, it’s not their reality. It’s the version of their reality they want you to see. Instead, focus on what you have going for you in your life. practice gratitude for the little things. Stay true to your goals and don’t accept all advice that you have. I’m laughing because this is something that comes up often between Jason and I don’t accept all advice that you get from everyone, unsolicited or otherwise, because advice is autobiography that comes with the life experiences of others. Use your critical thinking skills and your best judgment before you act.


Oh, it’s good. So this is like what threads is all about? Total number five is, you know, take everything you see in here with a grain of salt, including our podcast, right? Like, this is a podcast experience. Yeah, this is our experience. We’re not experts in anything. We’re just trying to lay it out there. And, and that’s what threads is all about is like when you see that Facebook thing? It’s fake. Like, do you know anyone on your Facebook page that like, you know, in real life that when you see them post, it’s genuine? I mean, do you know anyone offhand? Can you think of anything? Or like,

yeah, I have a couple of friends who are like me very, this is how it is when they post? Okay. But it’s it’s the minority?

Yeah, it’s mostly the other way. You know, like, I know you and this does not match. Yeah, what you’re talking about, I

saw some I don’t know if it was a meme, or what, but it was a photo of a guy on it. what looked to be an airplane flying somewhere. But that was the top. And then if you look at the bottom, it’s actually a dude. So there’s a laptop that has a an aerial view. And then he has a toilet seat that he is his faces in front of. So it looks like he’s looking at an airplane window. But it’s actually a toilet seat. And the it’s like the extent people go to to put up an image of something that really isn’t.

So in the last year, there was a rapper who’s kind of a nobody or he was somebody but it’s kind of faded out. He did the same thing. And he got asked for it. He was like on my private jet going. And I don’t know who it was, but he was on a commercial flight just like everyone else, and someone caught him doing it. Like, what are you doing serious? It was something like it was a reflection or someone sniffed it out, but I’m like, that’s what we’re talking about. like, Okay, I get it. You’re a rapper, you got to maintain an image, but it’s okay. If you fly commercial. No one really cares. Yeah. I don’t care if you have a private jet or not exactly. But yeah, this is what threads is all about. Don’t accept all advice you get from everyone. I feel like the advice you get from everyone is like Google. So if I have a problem, I google it, and I’m like, Okay, this answers here and search a little more Oh, this is similar. Okay, third or fourth answer, then you’re like, Okay, I can be confident this is probably what I should, right. And I feel that that’s kind of if you’re looking for advice, or unsolicited or not, you should do the same thing. You should take bits and pieces of what people give in and make your own decision off that.

Yeah, I go back to again, my previous job. Jason, I would say warned me and just was like, you’re you’re about to sign on with a big corporation. And you’re not going to have a consistent paycheck. Are you sure? And I did it. And one of the things you said after I had quit, and that really stuck with me, and I appreciate was the fact that you use your experience. And you just said, Look, I’m not trying to prove that I was right. You’re like I was just sharing from my own experience that I’ve worked for big corporations and it sucks the life out of you. Yeah, it was just a moment of okay. So when Jason gives me advice, whether it’s unsolicited or otherwise, it truly is coming from a good place.

Yeah. And and in that whole situation with that job, I was less worried about the money and more worried about the corporation. Not that there are Bad Corporation, this is all Corporation, right? just happens to culture, it’s the culture, you’re just a little part of it. They don’t really care about you, they’re going to replace you. I’m sure they already already have. And I was just worried about that. Because that’s not where you thrive. you thrive in a smaller, tighter knit community or a smaller business. I just because I looked at you at the other company, the printer company, like you loved it there. It just didn’t work out with with upper management, and that’s okay. It happens. Yep. But yeah, I was never gonna say I told you so. Because that’s not what I’m about. Like, when I said that to you. I’m like, I’ll support you. But this is what I think. Yeah.

And I appreciated it. It felt. I don’t know, I guess I just had a stronger sense of appreciation for you after you sent that message saying, it’s not about me saying I told you so. Yeah. You’re just like, I care about you as a friend. And I’ve been through similar things. And you pointed out the fact that you’re older than me, and I just had a moment where it’s like, you know what, he’s right. Yeah, I’m just nice to have you looking out for me. Well, I

appreciate that. That feedback. Yeah, I’ve worked for a big one big company. And it was not a good experience. And that’s all I was basing it on. Sure. And I had no nothing about the company worked for I, I didn’t hurt her nothing bad about it. I’m just saying, it just didn’t fit you. But I’m always gonna support you. To a certain extent, if I feel like you’re making the worst mistake in your life, I’d probably reach out to your wife first and say, listen, what the hell is Ben, I don’t know how to approach this with Ben and I don’t want to hurt him. But this is effing nuts. Like, Can Can you talk to him?

I would just Oh, man, part of me would just love to see you that day. It’s like, what would I do to even get to that point? I don’t know. It was like an entertaining storyline. Well,

I mean, if you if you came to me tomorrow and said, like, you know what, we’ve decided that we’re gonna buy a restaurant, I would probably tell you, you need to we need to meet right now. Like this cannot happen. You will ruin your life. Right? What I mean? Like I’m talking those kinds of decisions. Sure. I mean, if it was a job, I probably would never say that unless you’re going to be a Chippendale dancer.

What he’s trying to say,


Number six, dwell on your mistakes. There’s a big difference between learning and dwelling on mistakes. Consider this even learn to fail or fail to learn. Making these mistakes is a normal part of life. It’s how you approach them that matters. Try a different strategy of viewing your past by forgiving yourself for mistakes that you made, reflect on them, learn from them, but don’t hold on to them. This applies your relationships, career education and other areas of your life in which you feel you didn’t achieve what you wanted to wanted, or underperformed in some way, by changing how you relate to mistakes. You’ll give yourself more freedom to manage your future more successfully. Ooh, that’s a good one. You want to go first? You got something? Or do you got to think? No,

I do have something. So much happened. When I left the ministry world. I talk a lot about it because that was life altering, too. I mean, up until that point, like youth ministry is what I’d lived, breathed dreamt about doing. And then things got off the rails. And I made some mistakes. Absolutely. I think mistakes were made on both sides of the fence. And I won’t deny my role in all of that. But in that I had days where I literally just, I laid on the couch, and just was playing everything through my mind on repeats of all the different mistakes that I made, and woe is me, and I screwed up. And now there’s no job that I can find that I’ll be hired for. And I just had some dark days, where all I did was dwell on my mistakes, and even dwell on mistakes that weren’t even my mistakes. But I was owning them. They were the mistakes of other people. But yet I was somehow looking at them as if they were my fault. And so dwelling on my mistakes. Oof.

Just sucks the life out of you. When you do that, do you feel like if all those situations happen with the Ministry now you would be less dwelling on them? Yes. I don’t see you dwelling on stuff. Oh, man.

I have come so far.

Yeah. I mean, it’s it doesn’t surprise me again. I go back to your you’re in your 20s Yeah, we’re all especially men are very stupid.

I was pre 30

Yeah, I mean, it’s It’s just tough. We’re not quite there yet. I have so much more a better a better an adult than I was in my 20s. Yeah. But it’s tough. I get it like that, especially something that you’ve strove for. That was terrible English. So these drives drive for. But I also think in the back of my mind with you, Ben, like you dreamt about all that stuff. But remember how you were forced, and you were, like, almost forced in the ministry? Maybe it’s just better that you that it went the way it did.

I would 100% agree with that. It was a very toxic dream. But it was a dream nonetheless.

Yeah, you’re almost quote unquote. And no offense to anyone in your family, or how this but it was almost a brainwashing thing. Yeah. I mean, it really is, especially when you’re so young. And your brain is forming. You just think, Oh, this is what I’m supposed to do. This is what I was meant to do.


Do you ever want to go back? And do a youth ministry? Or ministry in general, something with your degree? I think a lot of people struggle with that. They get this degree and then they can’t, they don’t do anything with it.

Yeah. What I have found to be very life giving, for me, and not just for me, but for the youth pastor at our church right now. For example, I make one hell of a volunteer ministry that like, and I love that I have the ability to do that. So right now I’m teaching for weeks at youth group. Last week was the first of the series. And the feedback I received afterwards was, I can’t tell you how great it was to just not worry at all about the teaching portion, that youth group, because I knew you had it under control.

That’s amazing. That was like, Yes, so great feedback. It was life

giving for me, because at the end of the day, I absolutely love giving a message at youth group. Like that’ll always be something I love to do. I got to do that. So that was life giving. For me. It was life giving I hope for the students. And not only that, it was life giving for the full time youth pastor who didn’t have to worry about that this week, she had time to focus on other things. So it’s like, I’m just a very overqualified volunteer, and I’m okay with that. Well,

I mean, we’re kind of off topic, and that’s my fault. But the best part of that is like you get to do it, but you don’t have the responsibility of is this you know, as you know, and in, it’s probably super stressful to be in church leadership, it 100% especially when you’re dealing with kids.

Yep. And parents and parents are the worst. Yeah, let’s not. I mean, I say that, jokingly, why, but there’s some truth to that.

I’m interested in complete digression, how you would have an A hole parent in the youth ministry. Like, I can’t ever see myself going to, I mean, unless something was like, clearly inappropriate, right. But I mean, I can see us a parent at a school being fussy, but I don’t know, I can’t I just can’t see myself going to the youth director and saying this needs to be changed and proper, proper.

Well, that’s because you weren’t necessarily programmed with an idea of, of how youth ministry should be maybe like, that’s just not something on your radar. But I had a couple of parents that were that way. And their idea and understanding of what youth ministry should be was not at all what I was doing, so that they were issue hot on me all the time. Who saw that?

Like, just be thankful someone’s there to frickin do stuff with your kids.

Well, here’s where the rub comes in. Their tithes and offerings are paying my salary.

So I pay my taxes doesn’t mean I can tell a cop I’m paying. You know, that’s always funny. When you see those, like viral videos, I pay your salary. eff off, bro.

Well, that’s the mentality. I mean,

I can’t believe in 20 something

me wasn’t in a position to stand up to that. Yeah,

I wouldn’t either. So I just gave in. I would have done the same thing. So back on the dwelling of your mistakes. We digress. Do you beat yourself up about mistakes now?

I’m not nearly as much as I used to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there were literal days, if not weeks, where I just couldn’t do a damn thing because I was just wallowing in how awful The situation was. And You know, people know that I like puzzles. But the piece of that story that I don’t often tell is puzzles were my lifeline. Like, that’s what got me out of wallowing and dwelling on my mistakes. I needed something to take my mind off of that. And for whatever reason, puzzles is where it was at. So I just started doing puzzles all day, when I wasn’t searching for jobs, you know, I’d finished sending out my resumes going out on interviews, I come home, make some coffee, and I would work on a puzzle. And that’s just how I got through that time. And I did a ton of puzzles and continued to do puzzles. Even when we moved back to Michigan. It was almost my way of sorting through everything that I had been through all the losses that we had gone through doing puzzles was my way of just making sense of it.

Yeah, I mean, puzzles sound terrifying and stressful. So that would definitely not be something I would do. So back to kind of my end on mistakes. I haven’t really said much about it. But I, if you’ve noticed something about me, and whether good or bad when I as I say I’m sorry, I call I would that be bad? No, it’s good. But I happens a lot. Sure. So one thing I really don’t dwell on my mistakes. I mean, like, you bring it up that the 100th episode, that was tough for me, and it brought back memories of my, my mess up, but I like, I don’t dwell on that, like, I totally forgot about that. And I don’t know why that is in, in why I do that. I don’t know why I don’t beat myself up. But I just, you know, hey, I say I messed up. And I’m gonna try to learn from it and move on. And I I love that about myself. Like, Megan, I struggle with that, because she’ll come down, we’ll have a little interaction, she’ll be frustrated, and she’ll get tearful, which, when I say that, if you know, Megan, she could, that’s the way she expresses herself as tear. So it’s not like, it was this huge thing. And in sometimes she actually messes up on like, it’s good. No worries, I forgive you. Let’s just move on. Like, she can’t move on. And that’s kind of like she made a mistake. And she can’t move on from that mistake. And I don’t know, I feel like that’s such a I’m not like trying to toot my own horn. I hate people that do that. And I do that sometimes. But I think it’s a good attribute to have to be like, Hey, I’m not I’m not gonna dwell on this. Because what does it benefit benefits? Nobody. It’s true just drags out, whatever the awkwardness or the interaction? Well, yeah.

Well, one thing. I mean, there’s so many things. One thing I appreciate about you is the fact that when you screw up, you own it, there’s like, there might be a little bit of in between time, but for sure, generally, you’ll own it, and move on. And that’s taught me a lot, because sometimes when I dwell on my mistakes, it just causes isolation. And it just goes into this cycle of isolation turns into beating myself up, which continues to keep me isolated. Where if I were to just say, you know what, I asked up, I’m sorry. Can you forgive me? Let’s move on. Like, there’s no, there. I’ve wasted so many days, weeks, months, and dwelling on mistakes. And it’s just like, you don’t need to do that. So yeah, it’s important to dwell on them for a little while. And yeah, because I will learn from that, right. But don’t stay there. And that’s where I always got stuck was constantly feeling like I had more to learn from my mistakes when I really didn’t, I just needed to let go.

Yeah, some of the that dwelling time that you had, you weren’t learning anything, you know, making everything worse. Yeah. You don’t need to. You don’t need to dwell on things for six weeks to learn what you did. I mean, I guess it all depends on the severity of the mistake, but it does nothing. I mean, you get to a certain point of no return.

Exactly. Well, the next one is spend what you don’t have, and this makes me a little queasy because we’ve been here before. If you didn’t earn it yet, don’t spend money by giving into momentary desires. have what you think you need. Chances are the moment the moment will pass but your bills will remain and increase with interest. Be smart about money by keeping a log of your monthly expenses and then estimating how much you have leftover after you’ve paid your bills, food and other expenses. Then set aside a certain percentage of your paychecks be automatically routed into a savings account. Even if it’s a small amount It will add up over time without you even noticing.

One thing with Ben and I, we both struggle with this. I’ve seen Ben just buy some random shit. x kayaks. And again, I don’t know your thought process on it, because you may have been thinking about it for a while. But I mean, that grill, which I guess is pretty normal. I’m trying to think of something that you bought. I don’t know, I can’t think of that comes to mind because I have a terrible memory. But I have that impulse buying too. It’s so hard for me. And when Megan and I are like firing on all cylinders for money, shoot, I will run something pastor, right? And she’ll be like, is this really necessary? Bah, bah, bah. And if I can give myself a day or two like this says, you’ll forget about it.

Yeah. And I do. Yeah, I’ll

forget about not forget about it. Like, whatever. Yeah, like,

here’s one that I struggled with. But I think it was a smart move for me. So last week, I stayed at the Hilton Hotel, the new hotel downtown brain cam. Cheese, I’m trying to tell you. Wow,

how much money did you make in January?

Not that much.

We’re gonna think you got savings. Right?

Right, exactly. But my thought process started on Monday. So I started the week, knowing what was likely going to happen Monday and Tuesday, I spent kind of trying to figure out what am I going to do with my job. And as I’m going through that process, I’m thinking it would just be so nice to end the week by myself get a hotel room unwind after this very stressful week. So I had the thought Monday slept on it Tuesday slept on it. And then on Wednesday, I mentioned it to Andy and she was like, Oh, you absolutely 100% need to do that. So I was like, okay, so I did. But yeah, just that whole element of sleeping on a decision before doing it. And the only reason I chose the Hilton is because they had a last minute deal. COVID is preventing people from traveling so they can hold these open rooms and

good prices. Yeah,

good prices. And the icing on the cake was does a like a free night after 10 nights. Okay, so I needed one more night to get a free night. Okay, so because I took this introvert retreat and spent the weekend alone, Andy and I can now go some night for getaway.

Yeah, you got because Andy’s done that before too, hasn’t she? She has. Yeah, I I find it very strange. So nice, though. I know. I’m sure it’s beneficial, like, but I just find it very odd. And it’s not a cut on, you know, it’s just like, I don’t think I would ever do that.

Yeah. Well, we only did it after some friends of ours, which coming full circle. Andy’s going out to see this friend later this month. That’s her timeout. But they are also adoptive parents. And they said guys, being an adoptive family is no joke. Yeah, adoptive couples have a higher divorce rate because of all the struggles. They’re like, if we can encourage you to do one thing. It’s take regular breaks. And at that point, once a month, we were doing this. Okay. Now we’re at a point where quarterly is okay. But it’s probably one of the best pieces of advice that I’ve gotten is just take some time out. This is hard and you need time. So we’re getting so far off top.

Well, yeah, that I was just thinking about, like me writing the intro or talking about at the beginning of this. It’s like and I think it’s okay, I think people enjoy that. But let’s try to circle back about spending what you don’t have. I do struggle with that. I mean, we don’t have a lot of credit card debt. But yeah, I don’t know. It’s, it’s it’s hard for me to say for things. And I think you struggle. How is Andy though? I think Andy is kind of a spender too, right? ish.

More than you that in this phase of life. She’s the saver I would say. But before I was the saver, and she was the spender it’s like we flip flop. Okay,

so yeah, Megan is a saver. Well, she doesn’t save. She just doesn’t spend right. So she’s not actively like trying to save for anything. She just doesn’t spend any money. It feels super guilty about spending money. Really? Yeah. Like sometimes I have to force her like every time she’s like, Hey, I was wondering if I could get a new pair of shoes I was like, please Like, I asked him for my permission, I’m just like, Yeah, please just go by him, I don’t care. You know, you never spend money on yourself, go buy the frickin pair of shoes. I will have, I don’t bat an eye to go buy a pair of work boots for 200 bucks, oh man, and she’s like, um, these are like $65, I might just buy them, for goodness sakes. So number eight, assume your current job will last a long time. Why? Because you never know, if you’ve been working for some time now. Or you’re just starting a new job, try setting aside some money from each paycheck so that you cover all your bills and expenses for three months. So that statement actually should go up and the one above the right money, no setting smart regardless of jobs. If you’re able to save up this amount more quickly than continue until you have enough money you could live off for six months. Again, the topic of top regardless of your live the economy, the economy, job market, or just life in general can bring you some something unexpected. The best way to deal with this is to prepare in advance, which you kind of did you had a huge month in December, and you’re like, Okay, yeah, let’s put some of this aside, knowing that sales is desert in January and February.

Yep. And I’m so glad that we did that. Because if we just spent all that money, took a vacation and bought our kids an enormous amount of Christmas presents, like we would have shot ourselves in the foot. But I actually remember transferring the money from checking to savings and it hurt.

All the things we could do with this money, oh, your wheels just start spinning. That’s what I would do. Yeah, oh, we can update the carpet or

reiver. But then, as January went on, and money was not coming in, it felt so good to be able to dip into savings, pay the bills. And life kept going, like our hair wasn’t on fire, like everything got paid. And then it was like, Oh, this is why we save.

And I think it was probably easier for you to make the decision to drop the other company and do something else like now that you were getting paid. But if you if you didn’t have money, you might have stayed there longer in hopes that you would that tomorrow, you’d make that big sale. Right? Like everything would be fine.

Yeah, it was so nice to have a buffer. And I don’t think I would have stepped down if I didn’t have some sort of safety net there.

I don’t know about this one. Assume that your current job will last a long time. I assume every job I go into will last a long time. I mean, I obviously know I’m an at will employee like so are you like Yep, we’re bored. If you’re white collar and blue collar we’re still both at will. They can just say hey, we don’t need you anymore at any time. I just assumed that I’m going to stay at my job. Unless, you know, I make the decision or they do I don’t know. I just I don’t know that once weird to me.

Well, I guess I identify with the part where it says regardless of where you live, the economy, job market or just life in general, can bring you something unexpected.

Yeah, I guess if,

of course that can happen, but it hasn’t. So we’re human right. We’re motivated by uncomfortableness and pain. And if you’re not uncomfortable, and everything’s going fine. Why would I worry that my job’s gonna go away?

Yeah, so I don’t know. And I feel like you would at least have some notice. Like, you wouldn’t just wake up one day and be like, oh, by the way, you’re fired. Yeah, I don’t think that would ever happen to either of us. Yeah.

I think what what more I’m taking out of this is the bills and expenses. Yeah, the savings. We don’t do that. All we have is our just our emergency fund, which is $1,000. Yep. For like a major repair although even 1000 probably isn’t that much. I mean, if the frickin furnace goes out, like replacement, you’re looking at like four grand Yeah. But you know, we got we started out, you know, long ago with the Dave Ramsey plan. And then we just kind of bagged it not done it. But we should be like, we should be doing that. It makes me want to go set up an automatic save and we can do it. We’re just we’re just choosing not to Exactly. That’s terrible.

It is. Well, this last thing that you can do to ruin your life. That’s a little drastic. Things you should never do in your life. Number nine. Forget to live by your moral code.

I love this one. Yeah, me too.

What is your moral code you already possess it. It’s a combination of how you were raised. Your cultural values, your religion, your spiritual practice, what you believe to be just and some personal rules you’ve created for yourself along the way, nurture and awareness of your moral code so that it guides you through life, but it helps you make decisions both big and small, about your career partners. circle of friends personal goals that are important to you. Try your best to be true in everything you say think and do.

moral code is is a hot topic for me. Not hot topic. I always say to like, I have a high justice value. And I think that aligns with your moral code, you know, for sure do the things that are right. You know, it makes me think about masks. You know, right. I mean, the moral thing to do is to wear the mask when you’re supposed to to prevent Coronavirus from spreading. And when people don’t do it, I just get pissed in my head. I never say anything. Impressive. Oh, man. There was one day I told Megan I said, I swear to God, I am on edge today, if one effing person is not, or if they’re not wearing a mask, and they say something to me, or I don’t know, whatever, I just remember that day it was it. That was seeing a lot of people without mascot and I was on edge. And Megan’s like, maybe you should go home. Because you’re gonna say something

like credit. Oh, man. go viral or something?

Yeah. Oh, gosh. Oh, I’m, I’m glad I’m in my 40s. Now with the viral Internet, and not when I was in my 20s, or some of the stuff I did probably would have gone viral man, and I probably would have been canceled. But what do you think about your moral code? I mean, when you say, when the term moral code comes up, do you think about like, the spiritual practice of it, or just your values in general,

I would say my values take up more space than my quote, religion. Okay. But at the same time, my religion influences the values that I hold that’s like a, they go hand in hand, but but when I die, I don’t necessarily want to be remembered, has been the Christian. I feel like that stopped short. Interesting. I want to be remembered as Ben, the man who valued others, the man who stood up for his family, the man who did hard things. Not just he was a Christian, so we’re just gonna go with the fact that he was a good guy. Yeah, like, I guess what matters to me more than my faith? Is the values that I hold. And those are my family. How do I show up for my family each day, it’s a very non traditional family. But yet they become I would do anything for my kids. So that’s a value I hold. I value others. I want to make a difference in this world, I want to, you know, leave an impression. So when people think of me, they don’t just think of somebody who lives for themselves. They think of somebody who actually gave a shit about other people. And like, that’s the kind of thing that guides me, that’s my moral code. It’s not. And maybe it’s surprising for some people to hear that, that it’s not necessarily just wrapped up in faith. Faith is a part of it. But at the end of the day, it’s the actions and the investments of my time. All of those things are guided by my moral code.

Yeah, I think all these topics that we’ve talked about, you dive into, like you’re talking, you’re almost talking about legacy now. Yeah. You know what I mean, which triggered in my brain, I and I sure I brought it up in the show. It’s like, I always feel like I’m not important. You know, I really well, when I die, let’s say so like, who’s not rush limbaugh. We’re not gonna go into that. Ruth Bader Ginsburg, she died and it was like, man, she was such impactful. But then the next day, I went on with my life,

right? Sure. Like,

I know, the people close to me will be affected by my death, but like, everyone’s gonna be like, Oh, yeah, he was a great guy. Okay, we’re going for dinner. Yeah, and it bothers me. Why does that bother me so much? Like, I don’t want you to be in pain. But I want you to be able to, I want to, I don’t know like,

when you die. I’m not just gonna be like up. He was a good guy. Let’s go get dinner. Like, no, not even though I know. But you’re close

to me. I’m talking like, I want to be impactful to people that aren’t close to me. Why?

I don’t know.

It really drives me. I don’t know. I don’t know it. Really it I shouldn’t say drives me It bothers me that I won’t be and I don’t know why.

See, I think I’ve just in life come to a point where it doesn’t bother me. If people don’t know who I am.

Or doesn’t bother me right now. Right like in in flesh and blood. I could give two shits, but when I die, I feel like that’s it. It’s a finale and like, was I impactful enough and And that does drive my moral code to I want people to say, I called him and he came, right. Like, I don’t know what it is like I want and I feel like I am reliable. I don’t get 100% I don’t get asked about it enough. But you know, even with Jesper, he didn’t ask me, but I said, Hey, Michelle, in the kids need anything, I’m sure you made some plans. I’m available. Right? You know, and he didn’t ask me for that. But I just feel like I want to be available. And I liked her. So I would say my moral code, I don’t forget to live by my moral code. I think for the most part, I stick to it. And it’s, it’s, it’s super important with me, and like you said to I think a lot of it has to do with my faith. And that, you know, you know, don’t you know, what the 10 commandments I can’t believe I can’t come up with, like, a stealing and the adultery and all that stuff. Like, I mean, I guess I don’t need religion to not to do that. But I mean, I don’t know, I feel like my moral code is stronger than most.

Yeah. And when it comes to forgetting to live by my moral code, I don’t know that I could ever truly forget. But going back to the very first lot, the very first one where it talks about lying to yourself, I think those two go hand in hand. Okay. When we lie to ourselves, I think we actually are forgetting to live by our moral moral code. Yeah,

I also do like, what I rewrite it and the career part like going against your moral code in your career to have a better position, whatever, if you don’t believe in something that they’re doing, like, Can you imagine being at a workplace and like the shift of whatever it is the management and all sudden, they’re doing stuff? That’s like, shady, but then you’re like, why have this family? Right? Like, what do you do? Like you’re trying to live by your moral code and be like, this is shady AF, what I’m doing to the customers. And well, one of the corporations I work for outside, I don’t give a shit trugreen they would do some shady stuff to their customers. And I just hated that. I’m like, selling them stuff that they didn’t need. And it’s just like, oh, that’s tough.


So all these things have been amazing. And what do you take away from this episode?

my takeaway is, it’s really good to talk about these things. Yeah. Some of them are uncomfortable. And I, I felt super vulnerable on a few of them. But I really enjoyed this conversation. And I think that, you know, when I was putting together the show plan, I was like, God, I hope this works. It’s like, I have no idea what to do. What are we going to do? Because we originally, were planning on having a guest for tonight that didn’t get lined up the way we wanted it to son was like, what are we going to talk about, I

just have to say, and I know I’ve talked about it, I’m not tooting your own horn, but I love that you put the show together and nine, the 9% of the time. It’s legit. Like I very, very often don’t have much feedback about it. I hate putting shows together. Like I love talking. But so you doing this is such a blessing to me. You can just show up and talk. Yeah, I mean, I put the show together for the other show. And but it’s a current event show so it’s somewhat easier to throw articles together but having the thoughtfulness like you did tonight, clearly you did something right, because this has been great.

Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Again, thank

you guys for listening. We appreciate it. Just a quick reminder, threads for everything threads you can get I haven’t done anything with merch yet. I say that every frickin time it’s not that hard. Again, no time. So threads for the newsletter for buy me a coffee, all that stuff. We really appreciate it, rate review all that fun stuff, and we’ll see you next week.

Transcribed by

Share this!