Transcription #136

Hi guys, welcome to threads podcast life unfiltered. Thank you for joining us tonight Episode 136 personnel format. But before we get into that and our icebreaker Ben’s going to do a super short intro, super duper short intro to the threads in tonight’s direction. feel a little clunky tonight I’m feeling clunky.

That was a little funky. That’s okay. So threads podcast life unfiltered, for those of you who may be new, or maybe you’ve been listening for a while and you just need a good refresher, this is a show that gives us the opportunity to talk about three different topics, faith, mental health, and uncomfortable conversations. Every episode, we like to focus on at least one of those. Sometimes we bring guests on and camp out on one or two buckets. Other times, it’s Jason and I like it is tonight, just shooting the breeze and catching up on life and sharing what we’ve learned and how we’re growing. And on those episodes, we tend to cover all three of the buckets. So we’ll see where tonight goes. As we get started tonight, we have an icebreaker question that we will each answer. And the question. It’s one that we talk about pretty often here on the podcast. How are you showing up tonight? You know, there’s so much that goes on during the day during the week, even a weekend. And it’s good to just kind of put it out there. How are you showing up? It sets the tone for the conversation and I find it very helpful. So Jason, how are you showing up tonight?

Yeah, I do. I think it’s helpful to it’s almost like a mini reflection, like a two minute like, Okay, what am I been doing? Like we go so busy through life, sometimes it’s tough for us to actually think about what we’ve been doing. That’s kind of what this episode is about. But I’m showing up pretty good tonight. I spent the weekend up north with my family, they are staying up there. So I have a week of just I guess trying to cook for myself, I saw that there was two frozen pizzas in the freezer. Ben and I had pizza tonight. So I can eat that tomorrow. So I’m looking like maybe I won’t have to cook. I have to pack my own lunch, which Wow, Megan makes my sandwich. I packed the rest of the lunch. But did she make you sandwiches before she left? She did not. She made sure I had plenty of food available. Good. Yes. Very good. Very good wife. That Megan. So yeah, I’m showing up pretty good. I’m excited to record. It’s our normal. Well, not normal. We don’t have a normal night recording anymore, it seems but how about you,

I am excited to be here as well. I personally enjoy recording these kinds of episodes the most. And that’s not at not anything against our guests. Those are fun, too. But it’s just always good to catch up and talk through stuff. And I love that this gives us the place to do it. So I’m showing up pretty tired, I think and we’ll talk about why in a bit. But also just had a really good day, I hosted a kayaking trip for a gal who coincidentally used to live in Portland, Oregon, just like I did. So sharing stories about Oregon and being on the water. It was a good day, a little bit of an early morning, but a good day nonetheless. And now I’m here and excited to talk through stuff.

Yes. So before we jump into our personal update what we’re going to do with this episode, which you’ve noticed a trend lately when we do personal updates as we are going to kind of play some clips from this one’s Episode Four, just kind of talking about how we’ve grown and just just interesting things and I found a couple and this first one to get us started is in reference to my dad, as you know, if you’ve if you’re caught up, that I’m not talking to my dad anymore, pretty much cut off communication. But this clip kind of plays stuff. talks about stuff that I still am playing through in my head was just kind of frustrating. So listen to that and discuss and then move on to the personal update. While failure mistake I mean, that’s how we kind of label it as obviously I’ve talked about my mom being in the assisted living with Alzheimer’s and, and the connection that I don’t have with my dad and we never were really close. But my failure is I’m not reaching out to him. I had him over once for dinner, but he’s not reaching out to me and I’ve talked to my therapist about like, I kind of like laying down the law and saying, No, he’s the parent. He should come out to me. I understand he’s going through a rough time. I’m not asking him to be my friend. But why aren’t you asking to see my kids, they’re your grandkids you have a pool at home like I’m just like, making this line in the sand, but then I feel guilty. And then I say I should reach out to him. So I did and we had dinner It was fine but then it’s just been just you and him or no no we bought we invited him over for dinner for the whole family and it was a good visit we had a good conversation also started out a little weird I kind of was closed off but then I was like you know I’m just gonna I’m going to I’m going to deal with what it is at the time I mean it I’m gonna engage him and see what happens What’s it okay cut I didn’t really work hard on the cut but yeah, so as you heard in that clip it talks about the guiltiness of not like spending time with him or reaching out to him and it’s it’s less guilt now that I set that boundary but it still rears its ugly head that I don’t know what it is like even though they’re even with my mom like there she was my abuser but I still feel guilty not seeing or is I mean maybe that’s just human nature.

I think that’s probably part of it. Yeah, they are. Okay, your mom is biologically wired to you so right i think there’s some nature involved in that


I was I can’t really say that for

your dad I cannot

but I guess what I picked up on when I heard that clip was you’re like super passionate about these are the boundaries This is the line you can show up if you want to be involved you can show up and three years later I just want to say Dude, that was very well said and I think maybe at that time I might have been like that’s kind of rough Don’t you think? But now knowing what I know love the situation Yeah, I think those boundaries you set up are are very healthy Well the thing

is that the thing behind the curtain is I set those up but I broke them a lot so Intel just recently you know did you feel guilty about breaking boundaries? I didn’t I think it was that simple fact of I was hoping that it would be better and I was like it’s worth kind of breaking the boundary and trying to connect again and then setting a boundary and so this is this has been the longest I’ve probably ever gone without speaking to any my family and so it doesn’t really bother me that much but in the back of my head I always wish I had like this close knit family I mean I’m creating that with my family right and my kids and so when I’m 60 hopefully everyone wants to come hang out with us and it’s not this stupid weird dysfunctional shit show which I don’t think it will be. But yeah, it was just really I don’t know it’s just really interesting to listen to that and how firm I was but then I kind of failed a little bit I’m not beating myself up for it because it’s hard to break ties with your family regardless of I mean look at domestic violence victims they always go back to their abuser yeah it’s hard to do for sure I don’t understand that like if someone was like as an adult now if someone was beating the shit out of me on a daily basis how I would want to go back I don’t right

well i think it comes down to the other needs that are quote fulfilled by that person.

It’s true and there’s a lot in you know, that’s snippet of time that the abuse happened might be just a sliver of the whole day and the rest of the day is fine. Okay, yeah, but crazy.

No kidding.

So we’re gonna jump into a what our segment that we call our personal update, and what I want to talk about is just an old connection, new connection it’s not a big life changing thing but Chris Cal can yo Talon whatever he goes by that certain day. He’s a writer he’s got a writer name. him and I have been friends off and on for a while. Now. We were never off. I guess we just you know, just not necessarily close. Yeah, not super close. He always wants to hang out I’m always so damn busy. Chris is a writer a blogger so he I’m not saying he doesn’t work uh, he doesn’t work at nine to five jobs so he works in weird times late at night so he has more availability and I just don’t so I always feel bad so the other night Megan and the kids had left and I was home alone and I was like yeah, why don’t you come over I was editing threads and he came over and he brought like a half a bottle of Captain Morgan it’s like Maker’s Mark or something it’s like a smoother yeah him and I polish that off that night. He was here to like 1230 at night for you it’s super late No I didn’t have to work the next day because I was heading north but I still had a little bit of a hanger hangover but it felt really good to a not worry about COVID be just kind of have sit down and cut loose and and and it just was cool to connect. Just talk about politics and bitching about people and just not anyone in particular. Like, no, no, no, no gossiping, but just like, Can you believe, you know, whatever, Donald Trump or Biden or any of that just that kind of stuff. So it was really cool to To kind of reconnect with him on that level instead of just like hey man, I interviewed this person or podcasting talk, right? That’s really cool. Yeah.

Speaking of hung over I had a hangover. Saturday you did I did. I didn’t even drink that much. I had a tall at you cellos but they’re huge. They’re taller, or Yeah,

they are. Did you not drink any water that day? Cuz I drink plenty

of water. But I woke up Saturday morning with the worst headache. Oh man could barely get out of bed. Like, I don’t feel good. I feel sick. And he’s like, babe, I think it’s a hangover. I was like, from what from one beer? parently Oh, that’s never happened before.

I feel like you might have been a dilla dehydrated because that’s what happens to me. Where I wasn’t as dehydrated or as hung over that morning because I was pound because I knew he was coming over later. I was pounding water. Like man, if we end up cutting loose I’m gonna be hating that.

Yeah. So and I think to the fact that I had done two days of back to back bike rides probably didn’t help either. So I was dehydrated. And then I had a huge beer, which was delicious. What did you end up getting? Something with cherry in it? It was on draft and then they put cherries in the bottom. Sam Adams. I think cherry wheat? Yeah, yep,

that’s that’s one of my staples. If they don’t have much in they have that. I’ll definitely get that. Yeah, it’s good after it was good. Oh, nothing better than draft beer. So good or good. For me. I

had the opportunity today to not get hung over. It was good, big boy. I actually got up early on a day off and loaded up my kayak to kayaks and headed out to host a kayaking trip for somebody I’d never met before. I decided I was gonna create an Airbnb experience. I’m like, the only one in Grand Rapids. There’s experiences in Holland and up the lake shore, but I’m the only one in Grand Rapids apparently. So that’s really cool. Awesome. So I’m kind of blazing a trail. And I definitely was a trailblazer today. Overall, it was a fantastic time we met at the takeout spot, I drove her to the put in spot I had her kayak all ready to go. She asked me if I would accompany her just because we’ve had a lot of rain lately. And so water levels were high. It was just so cool to be like the expert or the guests or not the guests the the host like the tour guide. It’s kind of a new role for me. And she loved the trip. And you know, I thought it would be a little awkward with just one person on this trip. But it worked out and I honestly had a blast. And then she gave me some really great insight after the trip. She left a very thoughtful review. And it was just like, that was a ton of fun. And it was a win all around. She had a win because she got to go kayaking on her trip to Grand Rapids. It was a win for me because I got to go kayaking. Yeah, for sure double when I got paid to take somebody out kayaking. So it was just a really fun opportunity to you know, build into a new connection and try something new and I’m honestly kind of proud of myself for even putting myself out there to do that. I’m an introvert hosting trips is not like

I know you do with some of the stuff you do as an introvert I’ve just like did you like I don’t know I don’t get it. I don’t

ever think things through Oh, you don’t and then I show up in the moment and I’m like, I don’t know what to do right now. One of her feedback comments that she sent privately was maybe some conversation as we get into the kayaks and head out of what to expect would be helpful and I was

like Yeah, probably should have done that.

I was so preoccupied mentally with OSHA Is this a good idea like the water levels have been so high the sheriff said to stay off the water. I just could not calm that anxiety down enough to be level headed enough to have a conversation like yeah, I wanted

right to like talk about maybe skill level, right?

Well, I knew going into it she was and she’s kayaked much faster waters before Okay, well that’s good at least so that was good. But yeah, just just a general overview of what to expect on the trip.

Yeah, I mean, you have like I know it’s already almost a mid summer but I would power power I was gonna say plow through and I power kind of mix together our I plow where I would plow through and like try to do more. If there’s Not a lot of that in Grand Rapids you could you know, you could turn it into something like a pretty good side hustle. Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, you can only do a limited amount on the weekends because you know, the the time Yeah, all

but I can do evening trips if they’re shorts and like the one we did today would have been fine in the evening, right? Because the sun doesn’t set till almost 10 o’clock. Yeah, so cool. Yeah, it was just a ton of fun. You wrote

question or in parentheses, Sheriff sign. Yeah, have you not okay, I thought you were gonna skip over.

So along with those warnings, like there was a new story over the weekend, like stay off the water, it’s not safe. And I have apps on my phone. And I have, I’m in Facebook groups with people that share river conditions. So like I was smart about it, I made an informed decision based on numbers and experiences. And I knew going into it, it’s gonna be fine. But then I pull into the parking lot for the put in spa this morning. And they are these three signs from the sheriff’s department do not kayak or to dangerous river conditions. I’m like, hope she doesn’t see those. So on the way over, I told her I was like, Look, you’re gonna see these signs. They’re still up from over the weekend. I’ve checked the river levels. I’ve checked Facebook groups. I put a lot of thought into the best route. It’s going to be okay. But seeing those signs was a little nerve for

I’m surprised they’re still up though, because we that we that rain was last weekend, right? Yeah. So we haven’t gotten any rain since Oh,

it takes about a week for it to funnel out to the lake, though.

Yeah, that’s true. When I drove by on the highway today, right there. You know, you get off at Granville. If you wouldn’t pass that the Grand River that used to be a ferry boat there where it’s still flooded? Oh,

I believe. Yeah. So I was actually quite shocked when I saw that. I was like, oh, wow, the the water level is still pretty high. Yeah. So the waters that feed into the Grand River are usually the ones that empty out faster. Yep. So then all of that spill over then goes into the grand so the grain is still high. Okay, take another few days for all that water. It’s finally pushed to the lake. Right? And then it will be back to normal.

And you’re on the thornapple. Right? Yep. Okay, so she she clearly wasn’t too worried about it.

She wasn’t it was a great time. Oh, good. Yeah.

One of the things that I’m struggling a little bit is still dealing with. still dealing with that sounded bad. Meg and I are struggling a little bit mentally just kind of missing, not connecting. As you know, I did get diagnosed with Crohn’s, it is a mild form. Although I caught it early, it could have got a lot worse, like my son let it go for so long that it got so bad. So his is definitely worse. So the last couple months have been rough. Like I’ve had stomach issues every night. I mean, that kind of prevents in being intimate, you know what I mean? Like there’s been a lot of things that have gotten in the way. And finally, you know, I’m on some meds and it’s, it’s helped. But her and I have just been missing connections and we’re actually going to go to therapy. Like I have a therapy appointment. She’s coming with me which was only which is totally cool for me. Like I actually love it when there’s a third party there does not and should not always on my side. It’s just always nice to have someone else listen and kind of process the richer with you. So I can’t say that whatever we’re doing is or whatever what’s going on is is like this huge thing that happened. It’s just been this this nickel and diming. You know, you know, kind of like your budget where you’re gonna like nickel and dime in your budget, then the end of the month, you’re like, holy, should I spend $1,000 at Amazon? Or

have you had a conversation like that recently?

Oh, good. Yeah. The nickel and dime or the Starbucks or the energy drinks? And

you kind of Yeah, it was. So for us. I’m airing my dirty laundry a little bit. Sorry, Andy. But we have a target card, the red card that’s tied to our debit card, essentially. So you swipe the target card. It comes out of the debit checking the checking account. Yep. It’s not like but it’s delayed. And so it doesn’t happen right away. So four days later, I see these transactions come through. I’m like, that wasn’t in the budget. How am I supposed to where’s that coming from? Like, what is this? And then Amazon purchase that wasn’t in the budget either. So I have this grand, amazing plan of having all this money set aside vacation for vacation, and then it’s like, oh, $600 just went to a bunch of random stuff that we probably didn’t need.

Oh no, you’re pretty sure you didn’t need it. That’s usually how it goes. What’s the advantage? The target red card Do you get

5% off

okay so well that’s that’s pretty good 5% but yeah you got to be diligent on recording that make a note of it it’s gonna be delayed so we actually made I’m totally taking over you’re totally fine that’s what this is about this conversation

I made shares in our checking account so we have a discretionary share a grocery share, and I think those are the only two so they’re essentially debit cards, but they have their own account within our okay online banking so interesting I usually put X amount of dollars in for groceries that’s the grocery money for the month and I asked Andy a number of times please change the target card so it pulls out of the grocery share then everything will be fine I don’t care if you buy things at Target just let’s account for it and have it come from the grocery section and yeah, months go by and nothing changes and I’m like, seriously what gives? Yeah, I

mean it can be frustrating just not knowing the numbers like if you’re if you know the numbers it’s okay and if you’re okay with it, and she’s okay with it. It doesn’t really matter. Yeah, but the surprise is what Soc.

Yeah, and I guess we’ve we don’t do well with surprises. Okay. It’s not a we issue. It’s a me issue. I don’t do well with surprises. And I do tend to come down a little bit too harshly. I’m in the for some of those things. Yeah. And I do things too, that aren’t helpful. Like same story. I have a PayPal debit card, I get X percent off. But it takes a while for those transactions. Yeah. So I can’t get too upset at her.

I hate PayPal because it’s just shows up says PayPal. Yeah, I’m like what is this so I have to go into my pay pal app because like sometimes it’s easier to buy online with pay Yeah, like getting my card. And then you’re just like says Pay Pal. And you’re like

you have to go log into something else. Yeah, totally get it you know, but

But yeah, just to wrap up my my point is just we’re going to try to work on some stuff we set a reminder in our phones every Monday did not happen today. She’s up north of course. But it started last week. We are doing a check in about each other in person in person after dinner on Mondays because Mondays are the end. It’s the reminder went off tonight, obviously again, she’s not here. But uh, so that’s a good step. Like I kept saying to her, I was like, let’s, what do they say about if you’re gonna eat an elephant, eat it a little bit at a time or whatever? Not that you’d want to eat elephant. But anyway. But yeah, like I said, I’m getting overwhelmed. Like, can we do one tangible thing right now that we stick to? And that’s what we did. That’s so cool. So I’m hoping we have your first one. Yeah, we had it last week. It was fine. And it turned into longer than it should have. But that’s okay. You’re talking with your wife? And then we have to have a Yeah, exactly. It’s not a bad thing. But we have to have permission to talk shop though when I say that mean like, hey, I want to buy this. So this is all about like, how you feel and like our little like icebreaker thing. Right? Are you coming in today? Yeah. How you doing this week? How was the weekend? How you feeling about things, but then we have to say hey, can we talk shop now? Right? Nice. So but yeah, that’s it was kind of a low point what’s been going on with the krones and her but then kind of a kind of a hill or up or whatever you call you did something. So yeah,

that’s awesome. Be kinda reminds me of how things have been going with my son. Stefan is 15. And okay, he’ll be 15 this week, but by the time this releases, he will be 15 years old. And he’s just a completely different personality kid than I was. I was the weird kid. I wasn’t Mr. Popular. I didn’t have people blowing up my phone. I didn’t have a phone. But I did. Right. I didn’t have people like, I wasn’t popular. I wasn’t the it, kid. Stefan is and I naturally just always assume the worst about him, like, assume the worst about what he’s doing. Oh, you

have to? I mean, you you have to trust them. But you also like their kids. And yes, he’s broken. The trust. Avery’s done it too. So they’re not all angels. They’re not

absolutely. But at the same time of questioning and being aware of their decisions and assuming the worst. Like, I feel like I got stuck there. And I couldn’t get to the other side of like being a fan of my son. And so in therapy, I actually know in a conversation with Andy, one of our check ins. I just said I honestly I’m not Stefan’s biggest fan right now. And she didn’t like that that didn’t sit well. And she was like we kinda have to be, and really challenged me to rephrase that. So in therapy, I revisited that with my therapist, and he said, Let’s not be so quick to rephrase that. Why don’t we sit with that for a week? unpack that? What does that mean? Why do you feel like that? Why aren’t you his biggest fan? And so I did, and just really tried to be intentional with my son, spending time with him doing practice drives, taking him to his friend’s houses, meeting some of his friends, and just really engaging with him without thinking the worst in that moment. Do I still think the worst of times? Yeah. But am I going to just get stuck there to the point where I’m questioning my son constantly. And it’s making it hard to be in, you know, to do life with him. I think I can find a balance there. So it’s been really good. I’m just having conversations with my son, I was rideshare driving the other night. And I just would text him occasionally because I knew he was still up. Just be Hey, how’s it going? What’s up? And I’d tell him, this what I’m doing, and it’s like, we just had good interaction. And then when we drive he tells me a lot of things about his friends and I take a really big interest intentionally. Am I genuinely interested in? Not always? Of course not. But I’m trying to be a bigger fan of my son.

Yeah, man. That’s interesting. You say that I think we fall into these ruts with people in our lives. And it takes a lot of mental work to get out of that. I’m not saying you always weren’t his biggest fan. But kids are assholes. And you’ve Yeah, you had some maybe you had some hiccups in the last month with him. You’re like, I’m done with your shit. Like I was done with my kids shit this weekend. Like, they’re being like, not disrespectful. But whining and complaining. I’m like, look where you are,


You have popsicles to eat? You have? You’re playing with your friends, you have a boat to go out. I’m like, shut up. Like I literally said that to both of them. Because I’m like, What are you doing, man? But that’s good that it takes a lot of mental work to get out of those those ruts of how you’re feeling. And I like that you brought up in the car, it seems that you’re talking more because with nulty he hated talking face to face, but if he was in the car, when both people are looking straight ahead, yeah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, he would just keep talking and talking and talking. So might want to think about that if you’re hitting a wall with them trying to struggle and like, hey, let’s go for a drive and just, you know, he might he might open up more, I don’t know. Yeah. So that’s good idea. Very cool. Um, so something I learned. We’ll do this and then Ben’s got a couple other things. I just, I looked at Reddit for this. I thought this was interesting. That today I learned the US agriculture industry was using an arsenic additive for chicken feed up till 2011. And at its peak, 1000 tons of it were produced every year. The arsenic. Yeah, arsenic. Yeah, so the FDA finally banned its use in 2015. This is the kicker four years after the industry stopped using it. So this kind of goes along with the vaccines and everything and I’m not going to get into a huge vaccine talk but it is interesting that the industry stopped using something and that it took the FDA four years to officially ban it but I find that in America if you look at a lot of the ingredients that we have in our stuff in the look at it a Europe they banned so much more stuff. So I wonder, I don’t know. I always thought that was interesting that we’re supposed to be the greatest country in the world, but why we’re using arsenic.

Our food supplies crazy in America. Yeah, like the things that we put into our food. Right?

Like, I wonder I don’t know if monsters are. I’m sure they are sold in Europe, but I feel like there’s something in those monster energies that probably aren’t supposed to be there. Oh, probably not. Oh my gosh, I drink too many of those. It’s like two a day, bro. It’s pretty bad. But Wow. All right, what else you got? Number one kind of move on to uncomfortable conversations.

Yeah, this is kind of an uncomfortable conversation. So it’s the Russians man,

the Russians. There’s a side story about the Russians. I will talk to you about as soon as you’re done with this. All right, it’s triggered my brain.

So there have been some cybersecurity issues that have been happening here in America. And the target software that these hackers in Russia are targeting is Cassia it’s like the software suite. That companies like the one I work for, they put this on all of the client computers for their customers. It essentially gives us the ability to remote in fix things, patch things, push out updates to Microsoft Word. It enables us to keep their systems operating. And it’s super efficient. And it’s amazing. But in the wrong hands, like if somebody were to hack that which happened over the weekend. Those there’s 1000s upon 1000s of computers that are now at risk

and vulnerable. Yeah, hack if they can get right in it through that software. Yeah, so data

is being stolen and being held for ransom. It’s just this crazy thing that’s happening. So that was my low point this week, just realizing that this new warfare is targeting something that I sell something that I have really gotten to know. It’s just like, Whoa, shit just got real. Yeah, with my new job. And beyond that, around that same time, within the last five days, I’ve been getting emails saying that my Instagram password had been tried to be reset, and that my Facebook password was being reset. And my hotmail from back in the day was being reset. Now all of those things, I went in and set up two factor authentication so that, you know, some hacker can’t just change my password without me authenticating it. And thank goodness, I did that. But just the feeling of I don’t know, it feels like I’ve been violated in a way. Well, clearly,

they got some of your information. Yeah. I mean, I’m interested to hear the conversation at the meeting at work tomorrow. I know what they’re going to talk about, because it’s not coincidence that you had all those notifications come through on the weekend that that this happened. Exactly. That’s some scary stuff.

And they picked this weekend because they knew it was a holiday weekend. It support is low, that nobody’s gonna be in. Right. And what do you know? That was my low point this week.

I mean, I don’t think it’s a low point. I mean, well, I don’t know. I look at it as a I when I look at low point is like I asked up, I don’t feel like you did anything wrong.

And I don’t think a low point has to be sorry, I did wrong. It’s just, wow, this happened. And now Yeah, it’s gonna be a lot

of cleanup. I think I’m just reflecting or projecting my stuff onto you. But yeah, if honestly, if you don’t know what two factor authentication is, please use it when any app asks you and they don’t all do it. Just do it. Yeah, they’ll eventually figure out how to hack your phone and get that code but it’s basically when some device sends a code and then you type that code and then they know it’s you It’s literally your phone in your hand. Yep. But as far as the Russian thing go this is kind of podcast related audacity got bought by a Russian company, I saw that and if you upgrade from 2.4 to three, they are like a spyware company. Oh yeah. So don’t use Audacity don’t update it anymore.

I’m uninstalling mine and I’m forcing myself to learn Hindi and burn

Okay, I’m going on install mine too because clearly something shady about that.

Yeah, there’s a lot going on with Russia. And it’s kind of creepy it is

kind of creepy. It’s Yeah, just be careful who you’re giving your your information to?

Yeah, no kidding.

Thank you guys so much for listening to the threads podcast. We really really appreciate you as a listener. If you want to continue to support the show other than listening financially to help Ben and I continue our mission to bringing mental health to men uncomfortable conversations and just all around less assholes in the world. Go to buy me a coffee calm slash threads podcast buy me a coffee calm slash threads podcast. There you can give a one time coffee to coffee, three coffees or sign up for a membership where $10 a month gets you exclusive access to a Facebook group that’s just private with Ben and I and people you know, like minded that you know, you can get deep with a piece of merch and all kinds of other things. So if you go to buy me a coffee comm slash threads podcast. You’d really appreciate it and we thank you all the people that have joined our community, it means a lot. And lastly, please go to threads podcast comm slash newsletter and put your email address in there Ben is going to create an email before he goes on vacation this year a newsletter and yeah, you’ll get all the ins and outs of threads and comings and goings and maybe some bonus pictures and who knows so thanks again guys so much for listening at the Reds podcast. Real quick to last thing I know I said the newsletter was last thing If you can rate and review and subscribe on Apple or Apple podcasts or anywhere you get your podcast, we’d really appreciate it. Alright, thanks, guys. Enjoy the show. After the show, gets back to the show, Okay, I’m done. Here’s our we’re gonna jump into the uncomfortable conversation Ben wrote, then in now style, which is super light, and we’re gonna play a couple more clips. So this one is, which one is this one better? This

is my mental recollection. Yeah, it’s our men’s group. This is uncomfortable. It’s just so the reason that I’m putting this under uncomfortable conversations is I hinted at this a little bit ago, I suck at sleep. And apparently, three years ago, I sucked at sleep back then, too. So listening to this clip was just kind of like, I need to work on that. So let’s take a listen.

You had, you want to talk about your men’s group, your 6am? I can’t believe you get up that early. I know in the morning.

Well, that’s one thing that I have struggled to do consistently is get up and go to the group like I was, if I was going every other week that was accomplishing something. But I’ve been really trying to be there every week. And the guy who leads the group was a good friend of mine named Greg. And he, if I’m not there, I’ll get a text message from him. He’s like, Am I supposed to be graceful with you? Or am I supposed to come down on you for not being at group this morning. So he’s really good about following up. And when I go, it’s just a really good experience to be in. Like, it’s these guys that value their faith to a point where they’re willing to get out of bed early, and just get together, talk about the Bible, talk about life, and just grow together. And that’s pretty awesome. And I’m the youngest one in the group.

Interesting. So yeah, I did briefly talk. I just wondered if it was structured or if it was just like coffee and doughnuts, yes, checking on life or whatever. It varies.

Some weeks we’re doing a book together. So we just it’s very curriculum driven. Other weeks we talk more than we read. Some weeks, we just pray for each other. And yeah, it takes a while and so it’s got some variety, which is good.

That praying thing I know that was a bad at it.

I knew. Yeah, my bad.

I noticed that through this episode. As I listen, I could do a supercut of the word interesting. I bet I said interesting. 25 times. In that episode, it was rough. Tell me about

this clip for you. So I listened to that. And it made me feel uncomfortable for a few reasons. First, and most glaringly obvious. My word was a lot of mouth noises and breathing that we’re in. Yeah,

no one. We hear that but people probably don’t notice that we’ve worked hard to try to correct all that stuff. So

heard my mouth like making a noise like that was grow. So

like early threads, y’all. We didn’t do any editing, like I just put an intro song and exit song and uploaded it. So we’re a little bit more picky about it now. Yeah, not perfect. But we strive for that.

Yes. So that was that made me uncomfortable. And then just the fact that I used to have, I mean, on a fairly regular basis, I would get out of bed once a week and go to my group at 6am, which meant I was up by five. These days, I think it’s very much COVID related, and I hopefully will be able to build some routine back. But these days, there’s some mornings I don’t even get out of bed until 730. And my day is technically supposed to start at eight. And that’s just rough. And I have always been a night owl and I find it very difficult to go to bed on time or even early. But the nights that I do manage to go to bed early. I just feel so much better. And yeah. It’s just this I don’t know,

it’s a mental game. Just like anything. Megan hates that. I’m so strict on bedtime. Like, I’ll be like, it’s I’m going to bed. It’s like quarter to 10 I’m like I’m going to bed even if I have stuff to do. I’m like I’m going to bed I just for whatever reason I have to go to bed by 10 o’clock. And Ben always teases me if I like text him at 1030 like go to bed, bro. Cuz Yeah, I’m awful later than I normally AM. But you just got to work on it. You just got to be like, I don’t care what’s going on. And then no during the day that if you have stuff to do that next day and you’re going to bed at 10 you got it no procrastination, you got to get it done.

Yep. I really struggle with that. And then another reason that that conversation made me uncomfortable as I listened was that was at my old church and I haven’t I haven’t heard from Greg in probably a couple weeks. years now. And it’s like this realization of, I had something really good for me at that church that I gave up to go to this new church. And it’s a good thing Don’t get me wrong, like, we’re where we’re supposed to be as a family at city life and we love it. But it’s been very difficult for us to get connected with people like Greg who would have the the ability to ask me those questions, to hold me accountable. And I’m even getting involved in some leadership stuff and yet I don’t really feel connected. So like, listening to that we just really was uncomfortable. just realizing what I gave up in order to switch churches.

Why couldn’t you call Greg up and say, Hey, is this still going on? I mean, who cares if you don’t go to the church? It doesn’t mean I mean you didn’t go there because you didn’t go to that men’s group because of the church because of the guys exactly. Yeah, it doesn’t matter they’re not going to be like oh you don’t go to our church I mean I’m sure there’s some angels out there that do that. But I mean, they’re gonna be like, come on back like every goes to evergreens youth ministry we haven’t I haven’t stepped in that church and years yeah, forest services go and if they don’t say while you’re not a member anymore, I mean, I mean again, there’s probably some people that would say that right? You should reach out to them yeah, let’s see I mean, it was a really good thing and maybe commit to twice a month like leg times let’s let’s baby step this right? No kidding. But well thanks for sharing that I know it can be a little weird listening back to stuff so we’re gonna listen to something that’s uncomfortable for me. As far as the faith goes it’s a clip about me talking kind of a God thing and we just got brought up recently in the last month and so we’ll discuss after we play it this week Gods question for me you know, we’ll repeat it again. What is one area that God is growing you it’s not I’ve been terrible Ben. I have not been to church all summer. I am going tomorrow. You are the wife’s like

I am writing that down and we’re gonna follow Okay. Do it

I have every intention of going tomorrow This is obviously Saturday night we’re recording Not that it matters it’s just not it’s not growing in me and I need some accountability for that like I don’t I’m never one of those Christians like you have to go to church if you believe in God no, I believe in God I’m still a Christian I’m not going to church but I’m letting other things in my life make that decision for me in saying I’m tired I don’t want to go yeah and there’s no reason for it I mean yeah I work late will suck it up Buttercup like yeah, you chose to Yeah, you chose to work late so go to church and I love church when I get there Yeah, I you know it’s just I get to sit with my wife sat right next to me for an hour and a half or whatever it is and not that we’re having a conversation but we have that connection for sure. And so I’m going to work on that and yeah, and that’s really all I have to say about I’ve been terrible and I need to be better well I think God

can connect with you and we can connect with God outside the church to

absolute bed. Yeah, so why is that uncomfortable Ben and I

you said that I judged you on a previous episode.

I i did i do you still don’t think you did?

I really don’t. I don’t think judges the right word. You said it yourself. I need accountability. I know. So well given you some to pull back a few years later a

little late to pull back the curtain. Ben, Ben, Mike and I got a pretty heated argument to about this. He circled back about that episode and he was on your side. I fought him pretty hard. Like I was like yeah, man if you keep doing this, I don’t know if we can be friends. I was dead serious. Like I was like, I get it. I totally get it duly noted. But if you once a week, you know bug me about going to church, we might have to have a different conversation and it’s true it’s like I don’t know why I’m so hypersensitive about it. I don’t know why clearly I’m not doing well because three years ago it was the same thing and i don’t know i it’s this weird thing. I had it the other the last Sunday. I like Alright, we’re gonna go to church. And then I decided the last minute I didn’t want to go. And Megan’s like, you literally said we were all going to go and then you don’t want to go and then Avery and her we’re gonna go and Avery’s like, No, I’m not going to. We’re all not going so none of us went. So I’m just like, what the hell is going on so

and I don’t want to give off the impression that I’ve been like perfect in my church attendance either because I haven’t the last year and a half, especially with end working third shift. Yeah, spilling into Sunday morning, there were a lot of mornings that I did the same thing. Like I would say at night, I’d send out a group text to the family. Everybody be ready to go, we’re gonna go to church in the morning, even though mom’s at work, we’re going Sunday morning would roll around and I’d send out another message. Scratch that I’m tired. I’m just gonna stay in bed. Okay, so I’ve been there too.

I think the problem with this whole conversation around going to church is like someone telling you what to do. Like, you have to go to church, or you can’t be strong in your faith. Now mind you, I’m not saying I’m strong in my faith, and not going to church. I’m just saying there’s a lot of people out there that are like that, that don’t go to church. Now. I would say there’s more that go to church that are strong in their faith and not go to church, but I just don’t I don’t know. Like, no one else tells me anything. Like, I know you weren’t judging me. I mean, a lot of that was tongue in cheek. Did her a little bit but I know I know it was coming from a good place and same for Mike. But it’s just like who else tells me other than my boss? Who pays me money? No one tells me what to do you know what I mean? So I get a little this fuzzy about that. Yeah, I mean, you don’t you don’t look at my lawn and say Oh, your lawns a little long. You need to get out there and mow it. You tell me that well? Yeah, because I’m alive guy. But I guess my point is, is that that it’s not the fact that you’re checking in about it? It just it’s the fact that someone’s telling me what to do and I’m struggling with it and I don’t want to do it. But I know where it comes from.

Yeah, well I can say the same thing I know it’s maybe not to the same level or maybe it is, but I am almost I don’t know if ashamed is the right word but having you over to my place your yard is immaculate you’ve spent hours making it just so yeah, I don’t have that passion. Yeah, and that’s I do enough to get by I’ll pull some weeds maybe I’ll put mulch down if I’m feeling embrace, but I’m not gonna sweat if there’s patches of grass missing in my backyard. Yeah. And Jason will make comments the fact that you might want to I don’t know do some stuff back there. Well, here’s

my thing. If it’s not your passion is not your passion. But my but why are you paying for service then?

Because I want a green lawn and that’s all I want. That’s all I only care. Oh,

I know. I know. I just that’s all it is it I hope you don’t feel bad when I say something like I’m not trying to be me. I’m just trying to give you tips like Hey, man, you better water like it’s toasty out there or whatever. But

it maybe that’s what I’m doing for you. It’s the whole church thing.

Well, I kind of look at it like this. I’m gonna I’m gonna compare it to exercise. So we’re all exercising. You have to admit you’ve you’ve slowed down a little bit in June. I did yeah. You’ve slowed down a little bit. And so would you feel judged if I said, Hey, man, you need to start picking it up. No, no, but you kind of have invited that accountability right? We’ve kind of created this group with us three so it’s kind of on the table to Hey, man, what’s up? But I don’t know if the faith thing is on the table. Is that like an unwritten rule of like, being able to be an accountability partner for faith or what I just curious, because I didn’t go to you guys and say, Hey, if I don’t go to church, can you please let me get after me? Well, I think

you’re friends with two people who are very passionate about faith and true. And for Mike, I mean, that’s his life, his career is right up in that. So there’s that and I don’t like being told what to do either. But at some point for me, at least, the Bible does talk about not necessarily church services, we think of it but it talks about don’t neglect meeting together. And so and it talks about holding each other accountable and and pushing each other to things that are good for you. And so that’s I guess where I’m coming from,

I get it like you don’t have to defend it because I know it’s there. I’ve read it myself. So it just I don’t know what it is I maybe I have to do a therapy session with it. Because like, I’m clearly a little hypersensitive to that kind of stuff.

What was the expectation like as a kid for Sunday, we you went twice? And growing up with an abusive Mom, I’m sure somehow factored in. Yeah, I mean, because when you go to church, nobody knows she’s an abusive mom. Yeah, that’s the shitty part. So that’s probably part of why you don’t like going I mean, that’s the thing though. Like,

once I, that might be a valid point. And of course, my therapist would probably agree with you and sometimes I’m like you, you just always say that. It’s my story. that’s causing it’s like can I get dick? Like,

like you’re not a dick just because you’re a dick. You’re a dick because true shit happened. But my didn’t choose to wake up and be a deck,

right? And but so my church career like I went until I was like out of school out of the house, then I stopped going pretty much when I was with Dorie, and those kinds of things. And then when Meg and I got together, I started going again, of course with my parents church, like what a psychopath. This is

what you’re talking about, in the very beginning, people going back to their abuser, yeah,

literally, I’m going to the church because it’s convenient because my parents go there. Anyways, but, but that being said, I do appreciate you caring for me, I need to find a better way to say to you, Hey, this is this is what I’m looking for in this kind of check in so so we’re going to wrap that up. I don’t feel like you are judging me. I think I’m just hypersensitive about

it. And I’m hypersensitive about my backyard. Okay.

Now, we’ve established that moving on to mental health that now Yeah,

my goodness, this next clip, when I heard it, I felt that I, I was talking about something that was overwhelming to me and listening to me talk about that season of life. It brought back all the fields. And that’s all I’m gonna say about it now. And I’ll wrap it up at the end of the clip. What is something that overwhelms you? Hmm,

let you answer first. Yeah.

My kids, hands freaking down my kids. It can be very overwhelming dealing with what my wife and I called trauma brain. Both of our kids are adopted. And so they had a significant amount of neglect, trauma, abuse before they came to live with us. And that stuff, when it happens as a young child totally throws your brain out of whack. And it takes years of rewiring.

Yeah, over here. That’s what happened to me different. I mean, kind of, I mean, I don’t know if they had any abuse, but just kind of the same thing. You have this PTSD from Yeah.

And it’s so overwhelming. I mean, it just takes so much work. And some days, we’re just like, exhausted. And we fall into bed. And like there’s not even energy to talk with each other, because we’re just so done. Yeah, overwhelmed with dealing with trauma brain. Thankfully, with both kids, we’re seeing progress, especially with our 12 year old. He’s been with us for 10 years now. And yeah, it’s been a long journey, and it’s very overwhelming. So that is hands down. What overwhelms me is just the journey of parenting to children who have significant history, they have a lot of invisible baggage. Yeah, carry with them. Sure. I counted three times in

that one. And that little clip one minute, 42nd, clip, journey and interesting or the theme of Episode Four.

So one thing that I did, is I wrapped up that statement about how overwhelming it was, and they talked about this progress my kids were making. I don’t think I was being completely honest, I think I was trying to Silver Line. Because things were pretty shitty. Yeah. And there really wasn’t. I mean, there was maybe glimpses of progress. But the progress really didn’t start happening until probably the last 12 to 18 months, three years ago. Show it was a complete shit show. And I was so overwhelmed all the time in India, and I would just fall into bed. And before we could even circle back on anything, we’re just cocking out because we’re so tired from dealing with both of our kids. issues.

Well, yeah, you’re, you’re on alert all the time. Yeah. So it’s like being it’s like PTSD or just kind of waiting. You’re just like walking around waiting for some something to go wrong.

Exactly. I mean, it was to the point where we had cameras in every room of our house. That’s not normal. No, no. And now looking back at that time, it’s like, I was just so completely done at the end of each day, and the wheels were falling off at work. You know, it was hard to feel like I was making any progress as a dad, my mental health was just in the pit. Yeah,

you hadn’t started therapy at that point. We haven’t even gotten To those episodes yet where we started talking about that,

yeah, so I was just living in the state of chaos sucked. It was total chaos. And I tried so hard to wrap it up with a nice silver lining statement about the progress I’m seeing. I listened to that. And I was like, there was no progress being made there. Yeah, I mean, we had law enforcement involved with Stefan because of some behavior at school, I mean, and miracle having to call in some additional resources and feeling like completely at the end of our rope, like, what are we supposed to do? Like, what did we get ourselves into? And it was?

Is it Do you feel better the listening to that and seeing where you are now? Like, if you put that in perspective, it was three years ago? Yeah. Which is not a long time, but it’s probably seems like an eternity ago, because how much progress they made now. There’s gonna be bumps in the road, and it ain’t perfect. No, by any means for anybody. But if I had to, like, wrap it up, I would say it’s quite a bit better. At least the feedback I’m getting from you. I don’t live in your house, obviously. Well, we took the cameras down. Well, yeah. So there’s that. So that’s helpful.

Yeah. And we sent our daughter to a week long camp out of state like, it’s world’s better. The issues we’re dealing with now. The majority of them aren’t even adoption related. Now. There’s normal kid stuff. Yeah. Teen stuff. Yeah, that’s

so good to hear. Oh, that makes me feel so good. Because Yeah, I was. Yeah, you didn’t share as much as you not shut up. Could have Yes, you didn’t share as much as you could have. But you did with me. And man, I was just like, Oh my gosh, what is going on there? Like, there was no judgment. I was just like, I don’t know what to do. Yeah, I’m trying to give my dad advice.

Just like, I don’t know. Yeah, and that was all of my friends. Like, what we did is insane. And I don’t think I would even recommend it to anybody, like unless you genuinely feel like we did. We felt called like this was our mission. We felt like it was what we needed to do if I didn’t have that. Oh, man. So I don’t ever want to try to sway somebody towards adoption especially of an older child because it’s how it is so

hard. Yeah, I feel like if you do become an advocate of that, I think you should not sugarcoat it like be like this is gonna This is gonna suck

This is gonna match your life it’s gonna turn your entire life upside down.

Yeah guarantee Well I would say it most likely will but you never know you always had that you never know because you want to you want to hook them in. not let them go too far.

Yeah, my wife and I joke like she used to work at an adoption agency. And she’s like, I just can’t honestly tell people they should adopt kids cuz it’s just it’s so hard

Yeah, I mean it’s good to have some honesty I think you know when you do things like that because it’s just only fair you would want somebody to lie to you right? Like it’s gonna be amazing thing and it is now and it and it probably was when you did it but there was some pretty big bumps in the road. Oh yeah. So so as we wrap up just kind of some takeaways from the show. My takeaway is that you’re fussy about your lawn in the back when I said something like I didn’t I’m sorry if I if I made you upset Yeah, I’ll be more nice I don’t remember what I said. But

it wasn’t a telegram message recently I don’t know having people over or what but you said something to the effect of you might want to take care of some of that stuff back there

all because you had like trash out with ants going it that was that night I was over with when we were meeting

yeah which was after miracles birthday party and we hadn’t I guess Yeah, I

know. But I’m sorry about that. That’s my takeaway and my takeaway is man how much again and this is probably the said before is the growth that you and I have both experienced I just my gosh, as better podcasters and better people and I don’t know better dad better dad all around like better friends. I think we’ve heard when I have I mean, shoot, was it six months ago we were gonna cancel threads or I don’t know maybe it was I don’t remember how long ago it was but so I just want to let you know that I appreciate you and the friendship and I’m not going to get too soft. But what about you? What’s your takeaway?

Just the connection between what you experienced as a child and the abuse and then the Sunday morning mixed in Yeah.

That’s kind of an epiphany for me too. When you brought it up. I never think about that. This the story? Yeah. Or the journey of one that happened that that could be a Don’t tell me what to do. Yeah, and the thing I never thought about that.

I think it is and that it was a I don’t know that’s my takeaway is To not be so quick to judge that I am using that word just because we’ve used it we exactly I know. So don’t be so quick to judge that you miss out on the bigger picture. Like, it’s important for me to. Okay not just hold Jason accountable for going to church but also, let’s take a step back. What’s the Why here? what’s what’s the factor that I’m not seeing? And it’s so important to do that in all spheres of life like my job in sales. I can’t just assume things like I need to take a step back and dig into it, dude, I’m

gonna blow your mind that what you just said is just triggered something. This episode had the title, the moonwalking bear in it. Yeah. You just that’s literally what you’re saying. You notice this? Yes, the moonwalking bear. Where was that cycling ad? This is kind of what you’re talking about. Like, don’t judge or don’t say it. Look at the bear in the back that’s going on. What what a thread? Wow, you didn’t even try to do that. I’m like, wait, the title in that episode was the moonwalking bear. Check it out. Yeah,

yeah, it’s really good. I’m surprised you even remember that.

I know it just when you were saying that. I was like, that’s literally what we talked about. In this episode. The moonwalking bear, like make sure you look at stuff beyond what it is on the surface. Yes.

So important. It’s quite an epiphany.

Our minds have been blown. I’m serious. I’m like sitting here going like, that was great. And you didn’t even try it. Like we’re, we’re professionals. Now. Ben, it’s true.

Like we come a long way. We can just stop right here.

No, you have to have closing remarks. You’re highlighted, dammit. Well, thank

you so much for being a part of this journey. I need to throw that word in here one more time for


So obviously, we have a lot of fun. And every time I don’t know what to say I say So Jason says interesting. You know, this has been a lot of fun. Hopefully you’ve seen the growth that Jason talked about. I certainly do. My encouragement for you is to look for that moonwalking bear. You’ll find the video so you understand what I’m talking about. But take a look at not just what’s on the surface, but go deeper, see what’s there. dig into it, deal with it. Good things will happen. Thank you for listening to the threads podcast life unfiltered. We are so glad that you joined us on this audio journey.

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