Transcription #119

Hi guys welcome to threads podcast life unfiltered thank you so much for joining us tonight. Tonight we have our special guest Chris Cal Kaneohe and I think he’s a third. We were talking about it before we started recording it third time on the show as a guest. Oh, yeah.


Do you remember the three times it was?

It was about a year ago is the first time because I remember, there was another time where I was awkwardly sitting here.

Oh, really? That’s funny. And it was the first time I said, we’re not really friends on the show. I remember that, like our kids were friends. But now they hate each other. But we still talk. And then now we’d become closer friends over time through podcasting and excetera things.

Yeah, you knew me before I even had a pseudonym.


before I was Christopher Talon. Oh, so that’s, that’s new.

Interesting. Well, but before we jump into tonight’s topic, Ben is going to tell everyone that’s new to threads, podcasts, what threads is all about? And then housekeeping, and then we’ll do it.

threads podcast is an opportunity for Jason and myself and whoever else we have tonight. It’s Chris. Hello. Yeah. It’s an opportunity for us to have real authentic conversation. And why do we do this? Because we believe that this type of conversation matters. We believe that it can bring people together. And a world that is so divisive. conversation is the bridge. And we want to have a space where it’s okay to talk about things that are not always easy to talk about things that are uncomfortable. We usually end up talking about three main things, those being mental health, which you’ll hear a lot about tonight’s face, and uncomfortable conversations. So that is the threads podcast in a nutshell. Never know how to end that.


so there it is.

Anyways, that’s gonna work on

my landing. I

don’t know how to land it. And thank God you actually did that because I was not paying attention. I was I should be waiting for you. Well, you should you No, you should end up with a tag and that’s when the rat is what the threads podcast is all about. And that is my cue to move on. So housekeeping tonight. Just want to talk about the newsletter, we’d love for you to sign up for the newsletter. I did talk to Larry confirmed he said I did not have to make the newsletter just for him. So that’s good. Also, you can support us at buy me a coffee comm slash threads podcast, you can do a one to three times, you can do a per time. You also can do a month monthly membership, which is $10 a month. That gives you some extra perks on a regular basis. And Ben wants you to to review our podcast I

do. I want to see your review so badly that I will buy you a coffee if you write a review on Apple podcasts, and send a snapshot or a screen capture of it to Hello at threads I’m serious. Take me up on the offer. I will buy you a Starbucks or whatever coffee gift cards so long as it’s available on the worldwide web.

That’s not what I thought were

on the interwebs I don’t know I didn’t think you were gonna say anything black market.

We will buy you some Bitcoin.

Well, with that we’re gonna jump into an icebreaker to get started. And we keep repeating this one, but I think it’s good. It’s just a nice way to ease into conversation. Sometimes it can be awkward when you just jump into the diving or the deep end of the pool. So to help us get there, we’re just going to warm up by answering a simple question. How are you showing up tonight?

Yes, goes first.

No. Is there?

Was it three words? No.

It’s as many as you want. Okay, because the last few

Yeah, three words is too. It’s too.

It’s too limited. And it makes me think too much. As I said, I think the last episode I listened to was the one with the Oh, your Canadian friend on diet. Yes.

You get a book from her. No, she sent me a book. Well, she isn’t at my address. So well.

Yeah, she asked me for my address.

Well, you know what, I’m just so put together that I don’t need any help.

Oh, yeah. Really? Uh huh.

Yeah. All right. So so I’m talking. So all right, yeah. I’m gonna steal one of her words though. I’m showing up a little selfie from this Twitter pit med thing that happened the other day, but otherwise, generally excited because my podcast has been going well, and I was excited to come back and hang out on this one.

Yeah, we’ll talk a little bit about I was going to ask you about the Twitter thing. So,

so I missed something.

He Yeah, he had a, there was like a goat, just explain it.

I’m alright do it. So four times a year they do this, this place called pitch wars has this thing on Twitter called pit med. And anybody who’s trying to get published and needs literary representation, can go their pitch their book, you know, on a tweet with a certain format, and certain hashtags. And then people can retweet that and like that, and then, you know, if enough people look at it, then maybe an agent sees and goes, Oh, this one’s got some heat. Let me take a look at it. And it was a fun event. But it was me on twitter all day. And I got like, almost 100 new followers, but no, no agents. No.

I retweeted all our brands. I said gig Hey guys, in my personal Twitter,

because we have such a huge following, right.

100 new followers. Oh, that’s,

that’s awesome. Yeah, that’s something

I think we only have 100 followers total on Twitter.

You guys should it should pitch a book next time, you know, followers. No,

it’s funny. You bring that up. I was looking through telegram today. And I look to the last chat that I had. It was our ebook idea. For gig way back, it was 2019. The last time we talked about it, man. Anyways, so I’m sure I’m pretty, pretty excited. tonight. I was looking forward to recording in the studio more than me and you. And I had a good day for work and the sun was out went for a walk. So yeah, I’m coming in pretty good. It was a pretty good week,

I have to say, so nice. I’m coming into this feeling pretty good. But only because I went to the gym before coming here. And as always is a good reset button. But it’s just been a little bit of a difficult week with one of our kids. You can probably guess which one. Her name starts with an M and he

reminds you of God, if you don’t know what it is.

There you go. So her behavior doesn’t.

Exactly that’s not godly behavior.

So we’re just going through it with her. It’s nothing to the degree that it was in the past, but it’s still just irritating and frustrating. Just like come on, kid. So that’s just been rough. But I had a great first week on my new job capped off with a virtual happy hour.

Yeah, How’d that go?

It was fun. We just sat around and talks. Like, like we were at a bar. How many

people were there?

Probably 12. Okay, so and some guy had his hair cut with a flowbee during happy hour,

like during the happy hour some somebody was cutting his hair. Yeah.

is white. Have you seen the flowbee?

I don’t even know what that is. I

think I know what it’s from the 80s. It’s like this razor with a vacuum attached to it. It’s like the second cut

from when

it’s exactly that.

Sucks. And it cuts.

Yes, it’s actually a thing. flowbee that’s so bizarre. So his wife was cutting his hair during happy hour. Apparently it’s a thing. He did it last time he had his hair cut too. Well, it’s just the novelty and weirdness. So

yeah, it’s pretty weird. At least he didn’t go the jeffrey toobin wrote. I don’t know what that is. Oh, that was the guy that he thought he was off zoom. And he started beating as well.

It’s like front of all of us. Yeah, he got he got high level media colleagues there. Camera.

Yeah, yeah, there was another guy that just recently, teachers like a parapro. He had been with a school for like, 12 years. He was teaching like special needs kids. And he thought he was off camera. And he was still on and like he did the start to finish. Yeah, if you know what I mean.

Oh, boy. Yeah. In the room.

I don’t know. He was on zoom. Oh, we were just talking about zoom stuff. Oh, I thought you meant like they had like the room recorded. And he thought like he was Oh no, it was recorded. Everything was recorded. Yeah, he just thought he had left the room that he was in with the kids. So he was looking at something else. AKA porno. And doing his

business. He didn’t ever he never ended.

He? That’s unfortunate. It’s bizarre to switch from one to the other so quickly. Yeah, that makes

that throws up some red flags. He admitted to it. He didn’t try to hide it. He’s like, yeah, I screwed up. I thought it was off. So I don’t know. Whatever happened to him. Wow. Anyway, so we talked about Chris a little bit earlier and we’re gonna meet with it’s gonna be what? It’s just Hey, it’s it’s a part of a healthy sexual thing. You just it’s kind of weird that you did it wrong kids, but whatever.

I didn’t know the kids were we did

not. So he did that. Not that I did that because you started talking about me again.

Yeah. It’s like, wait a minute. Chris has never done that.

I know of that

we know of. Hey, no,

I’ll do Zoom calls with authors and publishing company. Oh, yeah, right. That’d

be the worst stand up if you get done with like an interview in your boxer shorts. Okay, man, I’m still here.

Oh oopsies awkward. But anyways, so we talked about Chris a little bit, you know, if you’re benna thready, or thread head, as Phil pot likes to say, you or maybe it’s not filled pot, maybe it’s Pellegrino, whatever, either way. You’ve probably heard Chris before. So the reason we brought him on again, is he’s did a little like fasting thing. And it’s not little it was seven days. No, it was five days, five days, either way longer than 12 hours. And that’s enough for me. Yeah. Yeah. So we wanted to bring him on to talk about the process that he went through with that, and what he did it for and in those kinds of things. So Chris, welcome. Why don’t you just give a little, you know, bio about yourself? And then tell us a little bit about the the hunger stuff, what the addict that out? Talk a little bit about the fasting and the hunger and why you did it. And then of course, we’ll have some questions for you.

Yeah. So my name is Chris. Cal, can yo I sometimes write under the name Christopher Talon. podcast under the name crisp town. And yeah, I did this fasting with my wife. She’s a registered nurse. And she got into it a little bit. I can’t remember where exactly, but then she went out and got this book that a medical doctor had written about fasting. And there’s just so many benefits to it. We talked a little bit like you get mental benefits from it, there’s a certain clarity that comes to being like, just really hungry, and having to like, almost kind of like meditate the hunger away, you know what I mean? But on top of that, there’s physical benefits to like you go into ketosis, you start actually burning the fat cells that are in your body rather than yet adding them into your body, like I always do otherwise. And I think what are they called stem cells, right? I think your body actually starts releasing stem cells into that fourth day. So the first time I did a fast A week later, I was looking for my glasses, and I go, man, I need a new prescription. I see no funny out, especially out of this one side, went into the doctor and like your eyes actually got stronger. It looks like I was like, Are you kidding me? It could it be from this fast? And I explained it to him. He’s like, I mean, yeah, I don’t know why.

I wouldn’t take your fasting advice from your eye doctor.

He’s like, I mean, it does happen. But it’s rare. And it hasn’t gone back down since then. Well, just the tiniest little bit, but it’s still you know, fasted three times now. So from pre fast to now, my eyes are still stronger than they were even though they have gone down just a little bit. Wow.

First fast. That’s interesting. Yeah. Hmm. So you didn’t mention anything about mental health as

well. The mental health part of it is, I guess that. trying to think of a way to have you ever not eaten for like, 48 hours or more? Never.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, come on. When? Um, so back in my youth ministry days, we did these 30 hour famine events. Okay. But I always did. I was the overachiever. I did a I started mine.

Like they’re gonna do 30. I’ll do time and a half.

Yeah. I would start mine early, just because I wanted the kids to know that I know what it feels like,

you’ve gone 48 hours without eating?

Close, maybe closer to 40.

So I’ve never done that. I think the longest I probably wait I have

we did a retreat in college for 48 hours. It was brutal. It is it’s rough. It’s really rough. Because the first thing that happens is like, you’ll just you know, because I I write for Hey guys, and do some other stuff, too. And I do that all from home. So I’m constantly like, you know, going to get a drink of water. And then I’ll just walk by the fridge and open it. And then I’m like, Oh, yeah, I’m not eating. Shut the fridge. Like That was weird. And then you know, walk by the pantry, stop open the pantry, like, Oh, yeah, I’m not eating What am I? What? Why did and it’s just instinctive to do that. So yeah, it’s kind of, it’s kind of good to get that reset, like, do I eat because it’s just like habitual or because I’m actually hungry. But after you get past that, then you get to a point where you’re kind of angry that you’re not eating. And then you get to a point where you’re just kind of sad, because you wish you could be eating and you watch your kids eat.

So is this like, this is like a total like a grief thing where you’re, like, you know, you go through the different stages of grief and all that, like, it sounds like that’s what you’re experiencing?

Yeah, but then like, once you’re a good full two days into it, then all of a sudden, you’re not sad for the food anymore. And you just start thinking like, you know, it’s gonna sound really good in two days, I’ll eat this. And then you start looking at things and like, you know, I get a, I can overcome the things that are upsetting to me right now. And you know, like when your kids are pissing you off. You’re like, Man, that’s, that’s annoying that my kids are being annoying right now. But it’s also a huge bummer that I haven’t eaten in three days. But you know what? That’ll be okay. The kids will be okay. And when this is all over, I can look forward to this. And so I think just for mental health sake, you know that that sticks with you a little bit after the fact to it wears away after time. And yeah, of course another one, but just the it helps you to put things in perspective and go right now isn’t that bad, and it will pass and there’s gonna be something good at the end of it.

I could see how that could do it. I feel like medication might be a better way. But I don’t know how you did I have to give you like all the props because that takes dedication. And it just I mean, because it’s not like you’re like sitting in a hot doing it. You know, you have to sell to function in life. You have to raise your kids. You have to bring them to school. Yeah, pack their lunches, you have to, you know, pick up after them. That just seems 10 times harder doing it like that kidding.

They definitely become a little bit more slovenly. And like, I’ll wear my pajamas pretty much the whole time and just aim for pure comfort. You know what I mean? Of course, but yeah, you brush your teeth, like five times a day because once you get into ketosis, then you have like, I just threw up breath all the time. Oh, in ketosis is a bummer. ketosis breath is not fun. Hmm. And it’s, it’s real.

Yes, yeah. So

for me, when I hear the word fasting, it’s it’s always been in the context of religion, an expression of my faith. I’m actually I guess, I have heard of intermittent fasting, which again, is a body into ketosis. But the majority of the time that I’ve heard fasting, I’ve always thought of it in a spiritual or religious context. And going back to my college years, I led a prayer and fasting retreat. And as I didn’t crazy as it sounds, for that whole weekend, we were at a church. We prayed, we worshiped. We didn’t need, took a trip to the beach and meditated and enjoyed quiet time on the beach. But we didn’t have the ability to just open the fridge and grab food. Right. So I guess my question for you is, if I understand correctly, you wouldn’t necessarily call yourself a religious person. No,

no, I grew up Catholic. And then that by itself did a number on me. And then when our pastor went to trial for federal charges for like, stealing millions of dollars from the church over a couple decades, do it. Yeah.

So with that being the case, with having kind of a not the greatest view of religion. How do you feel that fasting for many in West Michigan is seen as a Christian or faith based pursuit?

Well, I totally get why it would be part of a religious thing. Because Well, I really like Stephen King, and I read the his book The stand, and that the miniseries was great, too. But in the end, when they’re going to actually face evil, face to face. Part of the thing is that God tells them that they have to go hungry, like they can’t bring any food with them. And they have to be, you know, they have to make this trek through the desert, no food. And I guess, like, why would, why can’t we have any food, it’s like, because when you’re hungry, you think more clearly. And it’s, it’s true to like, you know, when you’re hungry, and you’re hunting, you know, you’re gonna hear every noise around you. So it’s just, it brings awareness to things that you don’t usually think about. And if you wanted to put like, a meditative or religious thing on it, and like, have some intention going into it and go, like, you know what, every time I’m going to eat, instead of eating, I’ll sit now, read the Bible, or, you know, write or, you know, whatever your thing is that you want to do. It could be it could be really transformative, I think, to try to replace especially, you know, because I have definitely an unhealthy relationship with food a lot of the time. So

you do American?

Yeah, I mean, I should be fit. I should weigh like 180 pounds. Oh,

no, you’re talking about should weigh

Well, no, my my body weight thinks that my body for my height. It says I should weigh like 168 but I’m pretty good at like, one 180 so but I’m like 195 right now.

Oh, you’re such a fat ass.

I carry all right here.

Yeah, I’m at I think I’m like 210 or whatever. But yeah, I don’t see you as like a terrible eater.

I don’t I don’t eat bad food. I just eat lots of food. Like, I’ll eat a bag of almonds in a day if nobody checks me. Oh, enjoy that toilet trip. You know what I mean? It’ll be something like that. So yeah, it’s not potato chips and stuff like that. But It’ll just be too many handfuls but pistachios or almonds and stuff like that. So that’s maybe why it’s only going on right now men put it on that spot anyways is their tire. That’s just what it is so,

so while you were going through this, I often wonder, did you have any opportunities to not hallucinate? But did you have any of those weird kind of things around? Well, did you smoke? Yeah, you did smoke

and actually, it oddly enough, made it a lot easier to not eat. Really? Yeah, I know a lot of people be like, but wouldn’t that make you want to eat food? Like, it actually just kind of helps you like, relax and back, bro. Just chill out.

So the last podcast, Ben and I and if you haven’t listened to it, because it came out today, I did talk about my cannabis use on finally. And so I’m, I talked to Ben about how I kind of want to get rid of that stigma of like, Hey, man, like, you know, you want to get stoned. And one of the one of the stigma things is if I don’t know what it is, it’s never happened to me. But when you smoke, or use, you get super hungry. I’ve never experienced that. I mean, maybe I need my mugs. Yeah, exactly. That’s like, oh, man, Cheetos.

Well, somebody that I write for, and actually, I had him on my podcast to grows. And for Matt, just for fun, but like they grow for medical facilities, actually, they grow plants. And then they sell clones to the medical facilities who then grow like these huge warehouses of them. And he’s helped me understand a lot of things about it. They have different terpenes, which is just one of the different I don’t know if you want to call it like a chemical compound or whatever. But each strain has different terpenes in it and different terpenes will make you feel hungry. Or they might make you feel like you just drink some espresso or they might make you feel a little tingly in the head. Yeah, they might make you feel kind of forgetful and like what was I talking about? and some will make you want to sleep someone make you want to eat. So they’re just to call it marijuana or cannabis, as a blanket statement is like, okay, but then once you get into that, there’s probably 1000s of different strains.

Yeah. And that’s what the cool part about being legal is you can like investigate that. Yeah. Instead of just like your bro friend getting you a baggie, right? I mean, you don’t even know what’s in it. And now you can like specifically go out especially like that making you hungry. Especially people that have cancer.

Yeah, it’s great for people that can’t keep food down, or they just constantly feel nauseous.

Yeah, yeah. But anyways, we shouldn’t go well, you and I will start talking cannabis. I show the cannabis pod wallets. Yeah, there’s probably a billion of those. But what I said to Ben is like, I’m really I want somebody on the show, eventually to have a podcast about cannabis, either if they’re anti or like, really into it, just so you can have a discussion about it a little bit. But anyways, during that time, did you have any times where like, your emotions like were you? Because, you know, they always say the hangry part, right? Like when like, I get hangry like Michael would keep granola bars in the glove box. Like when you’re driving around, right? Family stuff, like yeah, I

know you’re angry. Eat.

Yeah. So did you have any of those extra emotions? Either anger or sadness or

enlightenment, just like the first day is when you’re like, this really sucks. Yeah. And you know, yeah, if your kids are like, hey, do you want to try some of my like a candy right now?


And no amount of water. You know, it could cover it.

Yeah, you’d be surprised though, man. Cuz, when you when you fast, we usually start we’ll drink like a liter of water, which is like a mason jar full of water. Like just wake up in the morning. But and then you can have a cup of black coffee with a little bit of whipped. No, I’m sorry, what’s called heavy whipping cream. Yeah. Because that doesn’t pull your body out of fast. So people were like, Well, hey, let’s stare but know it. Your body doesn’t register enough caloric intake and whatnot. So yeah, still feels it’s still you’re, you’re tricking your body into being fast and still. And then. Yeah, another liter of water for lunch, another liter of water at dinner, and then just you know, kind of sipping on water in between. So your stomach doesn’t ever feel just like, empty, empty as long as you’re slamming fluids, which is something that I definitely don’t do enough of when I’m not fasting. Right. And that you you remember how important water is when you’re fasting?

I bet. Yeah. So

back to the question. Again, we’re that’s two digressions on this question. Talk about the emotions around during that and fast like from maybe from like the beginning to end like you said, the first day were a little angry, but the first

day, the first day you really want to eat and it’s just frustrating because like I was saying you, you habitually stop where there’s food and go what’s in there. But then the second day, it’s mostly just like, I wish I could eat that. You smell something when you drink. By McDonald’s and you’re just like, welcome to my life delivering food and you start going like, yeah. Oh, man, if I had to deliver food at the same time, that’d be really rough. But like, yeah, you start thinking a lot of times, especially when you’re not that far into it. You’re only a day or a day and a half into it. You’re like, I mean, if I stopped now, that’s still pretty good. Not many people.

So you’re having this debate in your head like this? Like, yeah, fine. I could. It’s okay.

Yeah. Many people. Yeah. And I hear that. I say that to myself all the time. Yeah. always comparing myself to not many people. Really? Yeah. Hmm. Interesting. As an out like, well, not many people make it this far. So I’m just gonna quit.

But I wonder if that’s actually true. When you say that

probably nine more times false than it’s true. I’m sure that’s interesting.

That’s kind of like a like a coping thing. A little bit.

mechanism, huh? Yeah. And I started seeing a therapist will talk about that. I do that too. I give myself outs and just like, Oh, you know what, I was probably not gonna be able to do Wait, wait, wait, wait,

hold the phone. You started seeing the therapist? Yeah,

I’ve seen it twice. Now. I’m gonna see. I mean,

how many? So is that a direct result of your fasting? Or did that come? Was that something you were ruminating on before your fasting journey?

That was something that I started thinking about pretty hard. When? When was the last time that I was talking to you and your wife? You guys were walking by and was like, man, I have not been sleeping. Well, lately. I’ve just been anxious. Dude.

I remember you talk. It’s It was a couple months ago. Yeah.

about it since then,

because I was actually I said, I’m kind of worried about Chris, because you went dark for a while to like, we didn’t talk for a couple weeks. And I was like, something’s up with Chris.

Yeah, I was I wasn’t sleeping. Well. Should we just jump right into that now?

I mean, it’s fine. I mean, this we’re talking about mental health so we can circle back.

Okay. Do you want to come back to that? We might, we might not. Okay. Well,

that’s how that’s how we roll within? Yeah, let’s,

let’s just keep it loose and free. I know, you’d rather be keep it loose and free. So

for sure. Um, so yeah, we? Well, I’ll come back to that. So yeah, but once you hit 48 hours, once you’re like, into the third day, cuz that’s how you have to do it. You have dinner. That’s, I mean, that’s the way it works best for me. I have a hard time saying like, I’m going to not eat now after 3pm. So I stopped eating when I should just be done for the day anyway, and I’ll start eating later. Yeah. Um, so you stopped eating at dinner. Then at dinner The next day, that’s a day. So then dinner The next day, that’s two days. And then you know, you go to bed and you’re already starting day three. So once you’ve done once you’ve done two days. I was getting mouth nose. Once you get two days, then you start to feel like Okay, at this point, I’ve got momentum, like I should keep going.

I think after the second day, I would be like that to like, Okay, I think I got this. Yeah.

And then that really that third and fourth day, as long as your stomach doesn’t start going too crazy on you. Then you really feel it, you just feel calm, like I really didn’t feel like I got on that third, fourth day. Nothing really could rattle me up like part of it was just because you’re a little bit lethargic from not having any calories in your butt. I think that might be part of the mental health part of it, too, is like you, your body just doesn’t amp up like it for stuff that it normally amps up for, like somebody cuts you off and you’re like, Oh, you son of a, you know, I mean, like, somebody cuts you off and you just like, Huh, alright.

You know, got a car.

Yeah. So, you know, part of it is lethargy, but I think that there genuinely is something happening in your brain to where you’re just like, it’s not worth it right now. We got to think about what we’re gonna put our energy towards. And that’s not worth Yeah,

I think you think like, the food. I don’t know. Is must be a caveman thing. You know what I mean? Like conserving energy and stuff like that, like all that other stuff means nothing. It’s like you’re focusing on taking care of yourself. And I still can’t believe you. What, five days?

It’s Yeah, well, I didn’t even make it to the end of the fifth day, because then my stomach started going nutso on me. And I couldn’t keep enough water in my body for as fast as it was coming out of me. Oh, no. And I was just like, I was like, Hey, honey, I don’t think I’m gonna make it to all the way that she’s like, well, you’re four and a half days. If your body is doing this, then you probably need to stop and I was like, Alright,

well then. We probably should end this podcast because we thought it was five days. We only get people on here. That’s five days. So

how are you even having diarrhea if you have no food? it there’s nothing but quick fluid coming out. Liquid shits.

Thanks for that. I

figured out what squirt but I mean, it was not to get too graphic, but I’m gonna do it anyway. It would be like oh, sit down and then just and then then

you don’t even need a good day for that. Or toilet paper. No, Jay, just a dab.

Just like it’s gonna be so pissed about this. I talked about poop way too much. Going joke at the dinner table like Hey, Dad didn’t bring up poop at that dinner.

You can have my son’s didn’t fit in perfectly with you.

Oh my gosh, son’s poop.

They talk about poop all the time. It’s a boy thing. That’s what boys do. My son will be like poop poop poop poop on your face like, dude, stop it. What are you doing?

Did you know there’s people that stand up to wipe?

I All right. I did that for probably 30 years. I find that so odd. Always did it. And Meghan actually kind of not peer pressured me, but she’s like, when she figured it out. She’s like, what? I don’t like

well, you know, Isn’t

that how you do it? Like, I didn’t know there was another way you don’t

stand all the way up. You just kind of Oh, no, no, I

stood like all the way up. Straight up, like legs

straight. No bend in the needle bend

or nothing.

I’ll do kind of like a standard lean forward. Well,

now I lean but Megan’s like it’s so much easier. And then I hated it. But then for them once I I was like, wait, why did

I ever stand up? I’m a savage. Why do we still not have bad days is like common household things. So total savages,

American squeamishness thing. It’s like, Oh, nothing should be touching your body. You shouldn’t even wash your hands. Really hard Africa. You should wash your hands really hard. But

ya know, the funny thing I think I’m in but I need a boozy one that has hot water can get

though. Yeah, only

what nor minimum? Yeah,

I can’t get cold water sprayed out my bottles. There’s

actually one. I don’t know who it is. It’s like there might be Hello, Toshi. That does not sure. But they’ve got one where they’ll actually it comes with the whole the seat warms and the water is warm.

I would boil it. I would be in for it if it had warm water. But no, none of that cold water crap.

Yeah, I wouldn’t want it sprayed on the backside of my boys.

As cold Yeah. She goes, you go number two, and you get up and your boys are shriveled. Anyways, where the hell did we digress from oop, this

day, four and a half? Oh, yeah, back.

Yeah. Okay and a half. And I tried to I struggled through that for a couple hours. Until my wife is like, dude, no, it’s not worth it here. And she gave me this and this, this, this will digest easy. And immediately I was just like, Ah,

so speaking of that with food, did it was it weird? Did it bother you? Or, you know, like stomach issues as you ate because you don’t really want to like jump into like a steak meal? No, no, no, you know? Yeah,

no, I think I had, like a, not a handful of almonds. And yeah, like some Ritz crackers or something like that. Not to go down the poop.

talk again. But I just I just be curious.

No, no. And then that slows down and then things over the next 24 hours start becoming more normal.

Okay, interesting. Yeah.

So what what did inspire you? I know your wife wanted to do it. And she did the full five days too.

Yeah, I think so. She’s done. Four or five of these now and I’ve done three. Okay, I have a burning question. So don’t get it. I watched her do and I was like, Oh my god, she did that. And she survived. And she said she feels good. And she lost like seven pounds and Taipei’s, didn’t you?

I want you to ask your question, but didn’t you look at her way? If she did, and you’re like, Oh, my gosh, you are a badass?

Yeah. Like I would be like you are a complete badass. Yeah. And with that, my burning question. And it doesn’t have to do with with poop or anything.

Thanks. Clarify.

As I think about five days, it’s like I work. Your wife works. Yeah. So she’s fasting and going to work. Bad Ass.

Yeah, not that. No, she

she intermittent fasts, so she doesn’t eat at all when she’s at work anyway.

Interesting. But cafeteria.

Yeah. Well, their cafeteria is pricey. It’s good food at that one.

She works at saints, right? Yeah,

yes. Yeah. Obviously, they’re saints. And they have good food. And they’ve got a nice little cafe there too. And you can Oh, yeah, you can just swipe a card. Right off your paycheck and you don’t have to think about it.

Yeah. Think about it. I’m payday. Well, as much

as Megan used to give me a hard time for me going to the gas stations. I would look at her pace. Does it be like Judas? Like she’s worked on it now. But, but it’s so easy. It’s just like, that’s fine.

She’s like, whoops. $4 sandwich. $3 coffee. $2. Cookie.

Yeah. And so you’re also I assume, writing and doing normal life. Raising taking care of the kids. Yeah, I mean, that in itself is a full time job. So it’s not like you are taking a break from life to do this. You’re doing this in addition to everything else.

Yeah. as best I can.

Wow. So part of that during that time, one of the questions that Ben row, which is really good as Did you have any like relevant? Did you have any revelations I don’t even know why podcasts like I’m the worst revelations or any Like, Oh man, I need to do this. Like, this is like a big idea. Huh? Well, I

mean, I thought a lot more about getting mental health counseling. And then I think might have been around that time either during the past or shortly after that, that my wife was like, I’m just gonna make an appointment for you. And then you can go and see if you like the person. I was like, Okay.

Oh, interesting. So yeah, why do you feel like you’re? Why do you feel like she did that for you? Like, were

you struggling or I mean, obviously you were but I mean, I like a challenge.

I like high pace. I like intense. And so do

yeah. For for what like in life?

Yeah, just in general.

I don’t see you as that. I see you. It’s just like, Hey, man, what’s up? You want to grab a beer? Have some whiskey.

You don’t see me as kind of a hyper dude. No,

boy. Yeah, I was

intense. Yeah.

So I wish the whole world was moving at the same speed as me. Well, I

mean, everyone does.

And so yeah, my mind usually races a lot. I think pretty fast. I talk a lot. So once I started doing the writing thing, and I had a book done started working on another one started trying to get that one out, started the podcast was growing that trying to get guests on, all of a sudden, I started getting some guests got some good guests. Now people are asking me to come on the show. I’ve got a couple sponsors. I’ve got the kids still got to do their thing. I’ve got to make sure that I can schedule everything with in it’s like, well, the kids are at school or at asleep. And after a while. It just got to be kind of like


Yeah. And, you know, like I was we were talking about you and me, Ben. Like, I’m the kind of person that will give myself an out and be like, yeah, just just quit. You know what I mean? So I don’t want to do that. Yeah, you know, I’m too old to keep doing that kind of shit. So, yep. So I was like, No, you know what, I’m, I know, I can be successful at all of these things. I’m doing okay. I just need to get into a headspace where I’m like, you can do this. You know how to do it. We’ll schedule the time. We’ll make sure everything works. And it doesn’t have to be so stressful, you know? So then, yeah, I started seeing this dude. And first, first day, we’re talking and like, within 10 minutes, he’s he’s got me crying on his couch. No.

Wow. 10 minutes.

Yeah. Dude, I

was like, well, you got your Oprah moment. And he started laughing. Wow, that’s so

can I say that? You guys had a good chemistry then.

Yeah. It was weird though. Because the second time like the first time was so intense that the second time it was just kinda like down. It’s almost like, the first date after you have slept with somebody and it’s kind of like, what do we do now? Are we gonna are we gonna hold hands? Are we gonna?

It’s like the chase, right? Like, when you’re when you’re courting somebody to and then you finally get it and like whether you you know, decide to have sex before marriage. And that happens. You’re like, Okay.

Now what we had this moment? Are we like, are we

DTR? What? You never heard that term.

DVR down to? No. Oh, God. Is

this a sheltered band? It must be I need to get a stinger.

Deep. Determine the relationship. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I’ve

not heard that term before. But yeah, that moment. We’re like, so what are we doing?


I’ve heard DTF.

Yeah. Now if you’re DTF, you got to figure out if your DTR

or D this is sheltered band, because he doesn’t know what DTF is.

I’m sure it has the F word at the end. Yep. Are you down to? Yep. Yep. Well, you got to have the DTR. Before you can be DTS to Shay.

Yeah, to Shay.

So there you go. Are you are you’re DTF. And then the DTR comes afterwards. And it’s weird, which is kind of what my second just were talking about? Yeah. When you have that emotional experience, and the second time wasn’t as emotional, but it was more like, more of him being like, you know, this is what I hear. This is what I think this is what I think you should do. And actually, it was pretty cool. Because I was able to let go. No, I don’t think so. And he’s like, oh, okay, well, how about this? I was like, yeah, that maybe, you know, without getting too specific on

being prescriptive, telling you what to do.

Well, no, not being prescriptive. He’s not a life coach. Now, there’s anything wrong with that? No. He wasn’t being prescriptive. But he was asking questions. He’s like, now do you I feel like maybe you would have this kind of anxiety around these things. I’m like, no, not so much about those things are a little off there. But maybe more like this. So he’s not sitting there being like, you’re this this, this and this. He’s like having a conversation with me.

Yeah, yeah. Speaking of conversations, it’s amazing. When a doctor has a conversation with you. Yeah. Isn’t it bad when they don’t you want to strangle him? doesn’t last episode, but yeah, I’m glad you brought it up. A lot of people wouldn’t say it. They’d be like, yeah, you know, even though it wasn’t true. I’m like, that doesn’t make any sense. Why do you want Why do people lie? did their doctors okay? I don’t understand that I don’t cuz I think my mom did her entire like therapy career.

I’ve definitely not told him every terrible. It’s in my list of things that I can like, we should talk about this, this, this, this, this and this and this and this. Right. But yeah, if he were to ask me something I wouldn’t like omit it just comes with time. Well, I don’t want you to think I’m crazy. It’s like, well, I’m here. Wow,

I mean, okay to be crazy that comes with

time you have to, you have to build the relationship with your therapist. I mean, I didn’t tell my therapist everything until like, probably after a year, no seeing her pretty regularly just because, you know, some of the stuff might be a little embarrassing, and you have to know that. You know, they will you know that they’re not going to say anything to anyone. But it’s still hard to tell a stranger some of the things that people come out with. Yeah,

yeah. Well, I

mean, I talked to him about stuff that I hadn’t really talked about, or Well, I guess, I mean, I guess I’ve thought about it, because when I started talking about I was like, Yeah, like stuff from middle school, because we had talked before, like, I was super ATD. And I was constantly like, go sit in the hallway kind of kid. And we talked about some of that stuff. And then he was like, and how did that make you feel? And I started talking about it. And all of a sudden I started getting,

I totally wish you would have listened to last episode cuz that guy brought up the middle school. We talked about Mike and I’s little fight. They’re like, how long have you struggled in middle school? I’m like you. I wish you were to listen to the last

episode. Yeah. So this week, I’m Monday. I don’t think I’ve cried so much in a therapy session. Oh, sweet. talked about all that middle school stuff. And then as I’m talking about that, my therapist is just like, so good at digging deeper, like what’s behind that? Let’s go deeper. And so we’re digging up all kinds of shit. Just like, Oh, my gosh, this is brutal.

Can I say I’ve never cried in my therapy session. I

don’t believe

you can say it.

I mean, every day. I’ll call her right now.

I don’t ever know. Maybe after you’ve been talking to me for a year, you’ll tell me that.

I’ll email her. Yeah, no, I

really haven’t. I don’t know why it is. Have you? Have you ever felt like you were going to and then you intentionally steered away from it. 100%. And I don’t know why I did. Why I steered away from it. Because it’s not like I’m uncomfortable with it. It’s embarrassing to cry if you’re a man because people always tell you it’s not manly. Like it’s ingrained in your head. That’s not me

though. Like my parents as terrible as they were. They never said like it was bad for guys to cry. I don’t have that mentality in there. I don’t know what it is. I think I’m like, I have this big dam. And once it goes, it’s gonna go like even my daughter has only seen me cry, like, terribly cry when I had to put my dog Baxter down my golden retriever. But that was hard. And she’s like, yeah, that’s the only time I’ve seen you cry. I don’t know. It’s not I don’t know. It’s not a thing. I actually want to have a good cry. I think it’d be helpful.

Yeah. So Chris, you had tears during your therapy session? I’ve been there. Did your therapists have tears also?

No, but he has a very empathetic face. Okay, like one that’s like, I feel bad for you right now. And I’m here when you’re done, you know, but just go ahead. You know,

yeah. Oh, speaking

of it was an in person. Yeah. Yeah. Lucky.

Right. Brain cam.

Yeah. He’s had to he’s had the vaccine

that would do it. Yeah. See my therapist is concerned because of my work seeing a lot of people

he doesn’t want any and mine has a new minor a newborn baby. Well, she’s she’s probably might not nine nine scenes

if you’re breastfeed. I don’t know.

Now, while she’s she has not gotten the vaccine, but anyways. Yeah. All right, Ben, bringing us around.

Oh, my goodness. Well, I was just gonna end by saying my therapist did have tears. What do you think about

that? Do you like it? Or do you feel bad that he’s getting emotional?

It felt so validating really, that’s good to hear. I we both just sat in it. And it was a little awkward. because nobody’s saying anything. And I can see that he I mean, he wasn’t he teared up.

Yeah, welled up and I’ve welled up in therapy. like they’ve never dropped.

Yeah, so I saw him. Like, brush it tear away and I’m just like, Whoa, okay, this guy’s connecting. He gets it, huh. So it felt awkward as hell at first, but it just really conveyed the sense of, I don’t know, solidarity being understood. And it was huge. Hmm. I don’t think I would like that. It was different.

I think about the two extremes. Like you could have somebody who looks like obviously uncomfortable like they’re looking at the wall on the ceiling and checking their watch

not want that, of course, but I often feel like hey, you’re supposed to be my therapist. You’re supposed to be Strong, you’re supposed to be the one that taking care of me. Why

are you tearing up the rock in the slot?

I understand that how you could feel the connection to Yeah, like, I don’t think it’s bad. I just think I don’t know if I would have the same feeling. It was rare, I think happen all the time. I think me terrible pessimists. I think initially, I would be frustrated with it. But then I would reflect back and be like, man, I was really connecting moment. Yeah, it was really good.

But all right, well, I’ll bring us back around as requested. So this is a term I came across while I was doing some research on fasting. The term is functional saviors. It’s essentially the things in life that we come to depend on. And we think in our heads, mean, I cannot make it through this day, this day, unless I have a cup of coffee in the morning. Or maybe it’s, I need a monster energy drink in the morning to get going. We come to depend on these things that we have convinced ourselves that we need them to function and so therefore they are our functional saviors. So with that, I was wondering, maybe you could speak to whether or not you’ve experienced that. And if your fasting experience revealed any of those functional saviors.

Definitely. Like I said, about my unhealthy relationship with food. If I was, if I had something that I knew I had to get done, I would just grab a snack, and like, start thinking about it. You know what I mean? So little things like that. We’re fasting is like, you know, you’re gonna have to figure this one out without your comfort food buddy. That was, I mean, obviously, the most direct one for with fasting, but and just through fasting, and then also talking to my therapist. I’ve realized that I guess just opting out of things has been a functional savior for me, you know, yeah,

I quit

a ton of stuff. When I was a kid, my parents, like you can’t quit and like, awkward, like, well, then you’re gonna have to look all your teammates in the face. I’m like, fine. Really.

We don’t let our kids quit. If they’ve committed to one thing, like, so. If it’s a semester of whatever, like Avery doesn’t want to do band anymore. But you committed for the year, you’re gonna finish out the year. I mean, I paying for the instrument. I don’t want to do more either, like 35 bucks a month. Like, that would be great. But I’m like, nope. You committed to it. Once you’re done. You can like I don’t know. I think even if it was, like a season of sports, I’m like, I’m sorry. You you’ve committed to this year. At least finished the season. Yeah. Especially

if it’s something that other people are actually relying on you for?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But carry on.

Well, what did I say?

I think that might have been most of what I was gonna say anyway. Well, you just talked about how you were you were going into something but then you talked about how you quit everything as a kid. So Oh,

yeah, just just having the panic button there. I just quit just to say you can’t do it anymore. Or just do it badly. Until they till they ask you to stop. You know what I mean? Like that kind of a thing. And that’s, again, one of the things that I tried to tackle in, in the couple of therapy sessions that I’ve had to is this, like, I got to lose the app out thing because I think that was a big reason why I joined the military because I’m kind of a hippie dude. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I think I just needed like to prove to myself like, you know what, this is gonna suck. But there’s no you’re gonna have no choice. These guys will literally grab you by the scruff and as long as you don’t do drugs, like they’re gonna drag your ass through it or in this is a complete digression. And we we won’t talk about tonight or tell him that you have a mental health problem and then you’ll be done to Oh, yeah, if I told him that I had one leg shorter than the other that I was diagnosed add or Yeah,

if I had just the military needs to work on all that crap. Yeah. Anyways, that’s, that’s for another day. But so over overall, what do you think? What was your biggest outcome of this fast? Like, what was your top two benefits you think that you took away from it?

more disciplined. And that’s a big thing that I get from from every time that I’ve done one, whether one time I had to stop three days into one because I started having, I don’t even think I made it to the third day. I start having weird stomach issues again, but just knowing that you can do something that’s hard, and not eating like, saying it like, just don’t eat like, okay, it’s easier said than done. Especially when other people around you are eating um, it gives you a sense of like, okay, I can I can do more than I think I can even when it’s not fun and it’s even mentally or physically painful. I can I can do more than I think I can.

Well, I wonder if through this and maybe your other ones that you talked about the quitting all the time. I mean, honestly, this, this should help that because like, hey, if I can do that, I can do this. Yeah. So Ben brought up the the fallacy thing. And it’s it’s it’s circumvented, circumvented. That’s not the right word. It’s coming to the podcast a couple of times where you don’t want to be like, Well, I’m not gonna quit, because I’ve already put this much time in it. But there’s a time and a place where you have to suck it up and not quit.

Yeah. Are you familiar with the term he’s talking about? Yeah, I’ve

heard you guys talk about it a little bit, the investment fallacy is that

the the sunk costs, cost.

Yeah, it really does apply to a lot of things. But you have to weigh the balance of each of them. Like, is this? Is this one of those situations? Or Is this legit? Terrible, and I need to quit? Yeah,

because I’ve tried to put myself in positions before professionally where I was like, This is terrible. But I said that I would, you know, like, I did admit to it, I did a long term sub job at a place where I won’t say, and immediately became evident to me that like, the people that I’m working with, and the community that I’m in, are not very aligned with my values. So I’m just gonna suck it up and try to be the person on the outside that they want me to be. And it made me miserable. And I ended up just hating it and resenting it, and eventually, they were like, hey, how do you think this is going? And I was like, not great. And they’re like, yeah, we didn’t doesn’t seem like you’re really into it. I was like, yeah, I’m, I’m not and they’re like, should we look somebody else’s? Yeah. Yeah. But I should have said that, like, a month in and like three and a half?

Well, I mean, a job is a little different. I

mean, we’re not all like Ben, it was teaching. And there’s not a lot of teaching jobs. And people were like, this is a good school, like,

but if you Yeah, if you hate it, I don’t care how great it is. Yeah, like using your million dollars

to help people that are like, Hey, you should just be grateful that you got something lined up right now.

I hate when people say that

pisses me off. It does. And well, those are the people that had died at 48 of heart attack because they hate their life so much, right? Yeah, exactly. just suck it up until you.

Yeah, what a life story to leave behind. All right, well, let’s wrap this up. I’m really curious. So Jason mentioned the episode where you were out walking, and he was concerned for you after that conversation. Just kind of as we wrap this up, I just like to hear. How’s that journey been going? Do you feel like the fasting and therapy has helped kind of bring you out of that funk? Are you still in process of leaving funk town? How you doing?

still in process, but better? Like, I’ll have nights where I know I didn’t sleep well, because as soon as I wake up, like, I’ll wake up before the alarm goes off, and I’ll just my eyes just shoot open. I’m like, oh, time to start going at it. Like that’s terrifying. That’s not how you should wake up. No. Yeah. So yeah, I’ve had a lot more mornings where I wake up, just like, calmly and like, oh, what’s going on? Oh, this feels nice. As a result of, you know, the therapy plus fasting. And then also, I just have more awareness from I think both things too. So when I see myself doing something, I can go. Okay, this is just one of those stupid behaviors that we get to learn to get rid of. Where’s the emotion? What’s triggering it? What can we do about it instead of being like?

Ah, yeah, very good.

Yeah. One thing I want to bring up just since we’re recording, and I was trying to do this if I’ve done something wrong, but did I did I check on you? Did I message you when I like, do you remember if I did, yeah. Okay. I’m thinking like I told Megan and I’m like, I never reached out to Chris like, Oh, shit.

No, you did. I think like on two separate occasions, you’re like, Hey, man, is everything going? Right?

Okay, good. I can’t I have a terrible memory. And as you brought that back up, I’m like, panicking over here. I’m like, you know, I’m just gonna call a spade a spade. Like, if I didn’t, I’m sorry. And I’ll be better at that. But no, you should reach out to your friends. If you think that something’s up, please reach out to them. Yeah. Because who knows that one conversation could be enough to like, help them.

I mean, you’re not going to solve their problem. But thankfully, you know, I’ve, I’ve not I’ve not ever been suicidal. But yeah, if somebody were, like, just not feeling themselves. You never know. Like, I know a couple people who have committed suicide, unfortunately. And it is haunting to think like, Oh, you know what, I saw them just a couple days before and I could have been like, Hey, man, but but that’s that wouldn’t have made no

it but even if somebody is in a funk, like it really does help when someone that you care about is like, Hey, I’m, I’m, I’m concerned for you just want to make sure what’s up. You know, if you need something, you know, let me know. So, if you’re ever in that opportunity, I always always say it. You’re never going to be like, Oh, I’m so mad that my friend like checked up. They’re not gonna be like, did you hear it? Did it come through here?

I think you might have just

been to things last time or last episode. But yeah, I just think you should always reach out. If you’re feeling that your friends off. It’s always good to check out.

Yeah. And if somebody gets mad at you for asking, then that might be a flag. Yes, then

you might have different issues that you need to address. But

Jason and I had that, like, they’re early in our relationship. I wouldn’t message you for days and you’d be like, Dude, are you okay? Fine. Yeah,

we still at times, he’ll go and I’m like, I can’t do this. Like, I need to talk. I mean, I can go a day, but two days is a little long for me because I’m just like, Hey, man, what’s up you okay? But you do I have to say, though, Jason, you do a really good job of checking in on your people. So I appreciate you saying that. I do make a conscious effort to like notice if people are in a funk or just to check in, you know, anyone that I haven’t checked into, we’re probably not close enough.

And it meant a lot to and he gave me that, that bread flour. When you after you gave it to me, like several times I told him I was like, Wasn’t that nice that he did that?

You know, I tried it like Yeah, so the during Coronavirus, he likes to break, break bread, bake bread, and everything was out. The flour was out his stores get flour, but it wasn’t bread flour, bread flour, mix, good flour. And when I was up the Amish store up at the cabin. Yeah. They have all that. So I picked a bunch up for him. So nice. Well, guys, Chris, and Ben, this has been fun. Thank you guys for listening to threads podcasts how long we’ve been doing? We are at about an hour. Geez. Yeah. So

when you’re podcasting,

so next podcast, it’s gonna be a little interesting. We are having Mike vandrie on from the skeptical boss. And then we’re gonna have Dave on that was Fenn.

That was on the finance

the finance guy. Yeah. So I’m really excited for that. It’s gonna I think Dave is going to be a person to it’s going to be all four of us in here. It’s going to be interesting. Nice.

We’re gonna get deep, real deep about religion. So anyways, thanks, guys. Have a good night.

later. Goodbye.

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