Transcript from Episode 111

Hi, guys, welcome to threads, podcast life unfiltered. Thanks so much for tuning in to us into our podcast, we really appreciate it. I’m very excited that you’re here tonight. And tonight tomorrow whenever you’re listening, and this is episode 111. And we’re talking about uncomfortable conversations. But before we get into all of that Ben’s gonna introduce threads briefly, and then we’ll do some housekeeping and jump right in.

I am so proud of you, Jason. You did not say super excited.

I know. I did that on purpose just for you. And Mike.

Well done, well done. Well, threads, podcast life unfiltered is a show all about being authentic. We live in a world where Facebook fake is all the rage. And we want to create a space where it’s okay to have your flaws. It’s okay to not be perfect and have it all together. We want to talk about the things that are difficult, and the things that, you know, aren’t always top of mind to discuss. So on the threads podcast, we do that by focusing on three main areas. Those are uncomfortable conversations, mental health, and faith. Tonight, we will be focusing primarily on an uncomfortable conversation about current events, essentially. But in that we’ll also have some room to talk about things from the perspective of faith and mental health. So you’ll hear all three tonight. So that’s kind of the direction we’re headed. I’ll hand it back to Jason to do some housekeeping.

Yeah, just a heads up to we are still remote. So the recordings are not hooked to Jason’s standards, but they’re pretty close. So just if you hear some hiccups, or I don’t know, weird noises, just blame Ben. Before we get into the topic, two things I want to talk about one is we have a platform now that you can support us. It’s called buy me a coffee, if you go to buy me a coffee, and search threads podcast, or go to our website and click support. It’ll direct you to a site that you can sign up for like a one time like, buy me a coffee by buying a coffee or you can sign up for our membership, where we it bills monthly, but you get extra perks, like a private group with Ben and I just to kind of talk about mental health or whatever you want to talk about, and a bunch of other perks. So go to buy me a coffee comm search threads, podcast or again to the website and click support, we really appreciate it. I really liked this platform, in fact that I had someone messaged me from the gig economy and asked about Patreon him like, Hey, is there a way that I can donate? Just like a one time like 25 bucks. And I was like, You know what, there really isn’t a way because he didn’t like the subscription model. But he did sign up for $5 a month and He’ll do it for five months. He says so. I mean, I guess I guess but yeah, that’s why buy me a coffee is a great platform, because you can just do it one time if you’re feeling the if the spirit moves you. And all that money does is help us further our goal of you know, talking about mental health and faith and uncomfortable conversations and just life unfiltered in general. Also, we have a newsletter. If you go to threads, podcast comm and click on newsletter, you can sign up to get that that’ll just be kind of episodes that we recorded, and just some blog articles and etc. So threads and click newsletter and sign up. So tonight, we’re going to talk about what happened at the Capitol. It’s kind of a touchy subject, and it’s really uncomfortable to talk about, especially on you know, what side you’re on or not. But Ben’s gonna, you know, kind of give a brief summary and then we’ll kind of just dive right in.

Yeah, so the events that unfolded on Wednesday, were shocking. And essentially what happened was a bunch of Trump supporters gathered in the Capitol in Washington, DC, and had a big rally, the president came out and did a big Hurrah speech and encourage them to make their way to the Capitol building. And also was just very, how do I say it without sounding left leaning? Or it’s just it’s one of those things. It’s so difficult, because I see it through my lens. Jason sees it through his lens, and you the listener, you may see it through a different lens. So this is why this is so uncomfortable to talk about because there’s so many different perspective and angles that we could take in discussing this But the President did have a A lot of things to say at the rally before the rally during his entire presidency, that really incited and motivated his people to do what they did. And that is to violently try to overthrow the Capitol building to break in and get their way, however possible. And, you know, there’s pictures of a, of a noose with gallows setup. And there were people calling for the hanging execution of Mike Pence, vice president because he refused to cooperate with Trump’s ideas, and just madness ensued. And there was a very strong, we’ll call it lack of police presence, given the amount of people that were there, the police were easily overrun. And as you can imagine, and as you saw on the news, a lot of destruction took place. Five people were killed, many injured, and it just all really makes you feel uncomfortable and uneasy and upset and wondering how in the world did this happen? In the United States of America? Yeah. I

mean, it’s, it’s tough. And as we talk about this stuff tonight, you know, these are just our opinions. You know, Ben may have read different articles than I did, I may have watched different videos than Ben did. So we’re just kind of basing on what we saw, as you know, we’re not I mean, I would say probably Ben’s more into politics than I am. But, and I could be wrong on that. You, you might be the same as me. But yeah, so just this is kind of our take, because I have met may have missed something and benefit may have missed something. So I just wanted to throw that out there. But as we jump into this, what was your initial reaction when you saw what was going on? What did you feel like?

I would say, it was just a moment of disbelief, and almost like, wait, really, because up until that point, the articles I had been reading and the videos I’ve seen, they all made, it sounds like this vote is really nothing dramatic. This is like this confirmation of the electoral votes, was just kind of a formality. It’s something they do every time. And historically, no major changes come from it. It’s very much just confirming what’s already been decided, right. So that was my impression going into it. And so I I heard rumblings of conservative folks saying that this is the day that it’s going to be the reckoning and they’re going to reverse course, and Trump is going to be named president. Now I’ve seen videos on Tiktok, hinting at that I’ve I have some family who are super conservative, some business connections that I’m friends with on Facebook. So from numerous different places, I heard these two different competing sides, one saying this is just a formality, nothing’s going to come from it. And the other side saying, all hands on deck, we’re about to reverse course and, and give Donald his fair election and he’ll be president again. So I naturally just kind of lean towards the this is just a formality. And so when I pulled up my phone to check the news at my lunch break, I was like, wait, what’s going on? As I read the headlines, just disbelief like seriously? How? How do we get here? That was kind of my first reaction. How about you?

Yeah, I didn’t really surprise me. I was just so for one. I didn’t even know that. There was some rumblings of going to the Capitol. That’s how out of it I am. I mean, I get most of my news from Reddit. I don’t know if that’s good or bad. And like Ben, he teased me today that I He’s like, I thought you were on Facebook. I’m like, I’m not on Facebook. I’m just only on it when I’m at my computer. So I really didn’t know anything that was that was happening. So when I saw it, actually, Sam, she’s like, you see what’s going on at the Capitol. I’m like, not a clue. But I was like, oh, doesn’t surprise me. But then as the day progressed, I was like, Oh, this is some serious stuff. And yeah, I was pretty. I was pretty disgusted with the just the whole situation honestly on both sides. The lack of police presence. And how far those people were willing to go to do whatever they were their revolution. So yeah, I mean, you brought it up earlier. But what, what honestly makes this uncomfortable? Is it uncomfortable? Not between you and I, but is it uncomfortable just to talk with people that might be on the other side?

Oh, absolutely. I officiated at a very small wedding yesterday. And I drove through a lot of little towns to get there. And it was very much in the middle of nowhere. And there were countless Trump signs still up in rural America. And I don’t know if I give off the vibe that I’m not a Trump supporter. I’m not sure.

What What is that vibe? That would be just

like, I don’t even know. But when I walked into the room, it just felt awkward. And obviously, it’s going to be awkward anyway, because they’ve never met me in person. And here I am to officiate at the wedding. Like that’s always awkward, but it felt like an extra layer of awkwardness, because so many of their neighbors had Trump signs this family did not. And there was just, I think, a hanging question in the air. Is this guy with us? Or is he against us? And it was weird. And like one of the guys had American flags socks on and I’m just like, oh, boy, what? We managed to get along with each other. But yeah, it just felt really uncomfortable. moreso than usual.

Do you think you felt that just due to the fact of the the atmosphere currently, so you’re kind of walking around the world like, ooh, boy, like, you know what I mean?

Yes. And I did feel uneasy while driving through Trump town, essentially, you know, out in the sticks, where there’s a lot of rural villages and cities. The Trump support there is huge, and I’ve never been a fan of Trump, and especially after recent events. It just adds an extra, I don’t know, an extra heaviness to the mix. Well, the

whole thing is just weird. One, it’s, it’s like when have you seen political signs stay up so long? Yeah, necessarily. I don’t feel uneasy out there. But it’s, it’s I don’t know.

I mean, I

look like a Trump supporter. I wear an American hat all the time. I have an American hat, American flag tattoo on my arm, I have a giant Grizzly gnarly beard. And I just, I, I’m not a Trump supporter. And it’s just this whole thing with him from beginning to end has kind of built up to this, this quote unquote, finish. And what I’m worried about is inauguration day like, yeah, this could have been a lot worse than what it was if these guys don’t actually plant would have planned it. I mean, yeah, they, they, they planned it. But I mean, it could have been a lot worse.

Yeah, it’s true. I am nervous about Inauguration Day, you know, what’s supposed to be a happy day in the life of the country, regardless of what side you’re on, politically, is now this thing that super divisive that Trump is refusing to go to, but pence will be there. And you know, all these former presidents go and their families go and it’s like this big thing. And it’s just so different now. Like, yeah, super,

I don’t know, divided in in regards to Trump, like, early on. I was I did not vote for him at all, both either time. So but I wasn’t totally unhappy with the direction early on, it was going but then towards the half. I mean, he I always thought he was a douche canoe. But, but I mean, you know, that doesn’t really have to do anything with Republican or Democrat. You know, I thought Bill Clinton was a douche canoe, too. But he he’s really he really changed and kind of set the tone and started saying things that people were actually following. And once it once that happens, you’ve kind of you’ve kind of lost me like, obviously, I want to rally around someone that’s going to do good and everything he rallies around is it causes issues. So, ya know, I’m kind of getting off topic. I just want to kind of lead the listener and people that are listening kind of where I was initially and kind of where I am now. So this is the first time I’ve ever voted for a Democrat. Wow. I never voted. Democrats up until this election year. Last year, I voted in our last election i voted third party Gary Johnson. So it’s it’s been such a shift for me, and I think it has been for a lot of people. But yeah, going back to all the Trump signs, you know, Michigan is all Trump except in like these bigger cities, like Grand Rapids went left or blue and Detroit went blue. But other than that, it’s Republican. So it doesn’t surprise me. You know, as I do flex work to every I end up in the boonies, and they all have their signs up to so the whole thing is just bizarre. It’s very cult, like,

yes. And speaking of cult, like, some other signs that I saw, said, Jesus, 2020 and I’ve never understood that. I guess I do. Jesus. 2020 you want Jesus to rain overall, and so do I. But here’s where it gets a little weird. In one house, there was a Jesus 2020 sign in the yard. But then in their window, there was a Trump sign. And so it’s like, so is it both are you like, you’re mixing Christianity and trumpism and I think that’s especially super dangerous.

You know, another one I’ve seen too is, there’s this house, I must pass it. I couldn’t tell you where it is maybe within my route, but they have like, a Trump sign but then they’re like, like, you know, anti abortion. So they have this pro life sign and then Trump sign I’m like,

What? Like, I

don’t understand the the the political thing with pro life like you have to be a Republican, but I mean, Trump just all the terrible things he does, but you know, pro life man pro life. I don’t know, maybe.


Yeah, maybe that’s too much of a stretch. But But yeah, it’s it’s, it’s interesting. And, you know, another sign that excuse me is I always see is faith over fear.


Well, one is that applying to do you know, is that is that a Coronavirus?

I think so,

or is that like a political thing?

Maybe it’s both? I don’t know.

Yeah, I don’t know either. In my head, I say Oh, faith over fear. Okay, how about science, but I get snarky. We always talk about like, brain it away and everything. But I’m like, are they saying that? They’re not gonna wear masks and they have faith in Jesus? And I’m just like, nope, dangerous? Yeah. I don’t know if anyone out there knows what that signs is exactly. For I would love to know, I mean, I guess I could Google it. But yeah, right. pop them.

What about these events? And we’ve hit on this a little bit what but what else is there about these events that just makes it uncomfortable or difficult to talk about?

I mean, it’s just, it’s just so toxic. You know, just like the pandemic like I really, you know, yes. Burn I before the show, we’re talking about it. Then I’m like, just a little powwow before he goes like, hey, let’s not touch on this, like, not that we’re gonna ignore it. We briefly brought it up. But I don’t want to get into big discussion it because it’s so uncomfortable. And people are passionate on each side. You know, we can still be friends and, and disagree. But you know, you know, this isn’t the right place for it. But with me, I don’t really talk to a ton of people. What about you, as you’re out and about, like you meet? Let’s say you have two appointments, you meet them? Does that come up in any kind of conversation for you just real briefly, like, oh, man, did you see this? Or? I’m just curious.

Not directly. I think there was once or twice that I brought up politics. Because that’s how I roll. I like, I guess I just like to feel people out and kind of see how willing they are to be transparent and honest with me. Because in sales, if you’re just going to be feeding me a line, I don’t want to waste my time. So if I feel it’s appropriate, and I try to be discerning, and I’ve not had an instance where it bit me in the behind, but but I will ask questions. I’ll say something like, Man, it’s election day. That’s just been it’s been something this year, hasn’t it? And usually, I’ll just get a Yeah, sure has.

Ah, I like that the way you’re presenting it, you’re gonna see if they go crazy one way or the other, because then you kind of get that’s very smart. The way you ask that is perfect. Because if they just say, Oh, yeah, I know. Then you’re like, Okay, well, that didn’t answer anything for me, right. I mean, it’s kind of a tactic to kind of see where somebody thinks about something without actually saying what you think.

Yes, exactly. It’s like playing cards. I’m not much of a poker player. But I have played other card games, mostly Euchre. But you hold on to certain cards for certain times, because they accomplish different things. So I’m not gonna play my best card right off the bat, I’m gonna gonna feel things out a little bit and see where there’s where they’re at. And then I’ll pull out the big guns.

I think that’s even with meeting people, like if you’re going to be friends with them, because obviously, I don’t want to be friends with a white supremacists. That doesn’t believe in Jesus. I mean, not that we can’t be like, cool with each other. But I mean, like, I’m not gonna hang out with somebody like that, and asking those questions can kind of to see where you know what I mean? No, that’s a great question to ask. Moving on, what do you think it’d be done avoided the situation? And when you wrote that question, do you mean just the capital that what we’re talking about?

I feel like that’s the culmination of all of this. Yeah. I mean, what could have been done so that things did not spiral out of control so badly? Because I mean, just like you were saying, Yes, I was disappointed and a little surprised that things actually happened that way. But frankly, it’s the way they’ve been heading for a long time. And nobody did anything about it. So I’m just curious, what could have been done?

I mean, simply, he could have shut his piehole from the mean, like, he’s caused all this. And I, honestly, since this happened, I was like, it’s almost like treason. It really is. You have so much power to motivate people and you’re not motivating for good. And it’s all started from the beginning, the way you tweet the way you talk to people, the way you think about, you know, immigrants and and those kind of things like you, you’ve built this craziness. So when it did happen, it didn’t surprise me. But he’s to blame. I mean, if he didn’t, I bet you dollars to doughnuts, and maybe not. But if he didn’t have that speech before, I wonder if it would have happened, or if it would have been as intense as it was.

I don’t think it would have I think that really was like gasoline on the fire. He’s like, Alright, all my people are here. So I’m gonna go, I’m gonna go rattle them up and let them do their thing. Like, the president should not have even been there. Like he should have been doing presidential duties. Yeah, like golfing. Right. So what is

endgame with all this? I mean, everyone says, Oh, he’s a narcissist, but I actually don’t see. I mean, I see that he’s a narcissist, but I don’t see that. That’s what’s causing, like the tweets and the way he’s fighting everything. How is it that like, what’s his endgame because he’s a businessman. Like, what? I don’t know. I just don’t understand how I mean, I know I’m going I’m like, rattling the shit off. I’m getting hyper. But I’m like, look at the legacy he’s setting you’re gonna be a laughingstock, like, for the rest of eternity, when people go into the books are like, what an effin psychopath?


What’s your end game? I don’t get it.

I think his end game was ludicrous. And that was overturning the election results. He really believed in his head that he could do it. And now, he didn’t. He can’t, he won’t. And yet, there’s still many followers of him some in my very own bloodline. I can’t stand that, who support him without any, any conflict, like they are totally okay with supporting this moron. And I just don’t get it. So his end game. He doesn’t have one it’s over. And msnbc the other night was reporting that one of his aides, they didn’t say who this person wanted to remain anonymous. But they the aide said that the President has been dejected and he’s feeling embarrassed, and he doesn’t know where to go from here. And it’s like, well, what the hell were you expecting?

Yeah, it’s like a little kid where he does it. And then he feels bad later. I don’t know.

Yeah, it’s just ridiculous. So all of this leads to another big question for me. We’ve talked about all the things that could have been done to avoid it like he could have just stopped yammering and everything else. But what makes me most uncomfortable again, I hinted at my family members who are supportive of Trump. She’s like, what makes me the most uncomfortable is the thought of Is this who we’ve become as a country? Like? Are we really this divided? And are? Is there really people out there who fully stand by this guy? Like, what does that say about us as a country? We’re called the United States of America. But I don’t think united is a good word to describe us right now. No, I

totally agree. And, you know, this is really just made everything more like we’ve actually gone backwards. So if our goal was to try to like, have these both sides kind of get along and do our thing, like if we were getting to that goal, as much as I didn’t believe a lot of Obama’s policies and like universal health care and everything. No, don’t get me wrong. Don’t say I’m a hater, because I don’t want a person to get health care. But I just, overall, I wasn’t a huge fan. Where was I going with this? I’m totally lost. Oh, being divided. So I think with Obama’s president presidency, he did a good job of like, pulling us all together. I really think he did. And I think it was great. And I thought, okay, we’re going to that direction. But now, it’s like, way divided again, and I don’t know. You know, Biden’s not going to be the guy. I mean, honestly, I voted for him. But I wasn’t a huge fan. Regardless, he’s not going to be the guy to put us together. So that being said, I don’t know, I think we’ll always be divided. But I think at some point, someone’s got to bring it around to the good like, Obama. Again, I look, there’s so much difference between Trump and Obama’s as far as like, how they rally the troops in quotes, right. Obama rallied everyone hope and change, try to be better. I

mean, not not, I

think bush did a terrible job. But you know, those kind of things. So it’s just kind of two sides of the division where one was, I think, honestly, was bringing people together and the other ones tearing apart.

Yeah, yeah. And there’s also now like a division amongst social media platforms? Well, there was, I don’t know if it’s going to stay that way. But talking about the ways we’re divided. So Facebook and Twitter have been monitoring and moderating and whatnot, putting up fact checks on some controversial stuff from the right. So people on the right got sick of it. So they went and started parlor and these other right wing sites. And now after Wednesday’s, Wednesday’s events, Amazon, who hosts all of their stuff, said, Nope, not gonna host your platform anymore. And Apple even came out and said, Nope, we’re not going to host your app on our app store. Google, same thing. And so now they’re acting as if their free speech is being encroached on. And it’s like, I don’t know, it’s just so divided everywhere you look on social media, politically, I mean, families are feeling the strain My family is. And I’ve had numerous conversations with cousins, brothers, in laws, and it’s just like, how do we navigate having relationships with these people that believe very differently than we do? And it’s just, it’s been very tense, I think is the right word. Yeah. See, for me, it

doesn’t really bother me too much. I mean, if you if you were like a trumper, and everything, I would be fine with if you were as long as you just weren’t, like bringing it up to my face all the time. Like, if I would bring it up to you the other way, you know what I mean? I mean, you talk about like, all the people in your lives like, that’s, I say, like, I don’t talk about politics. So I mean, it gets it doesn’t really bother me, I can maintain a healthy relationship with somebody that, you know, voted for Trump and still believes in him. But as long as they’re not, you know, like, oh, you’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re wrong, then I can’t be friends with you. Because it’s like, we can be friends. We don’t have to agree. But if you’re gonna throw it in my face, every time we talk, then it’s peace out like,


either. I’m gonna say, Hey, we can’t talk about this anymore. And if you continue, I don’t know what to tell you. So I look at it a little more bluntly than Ben does. I mean, how do you how do you maintain the relationships if with somebody like that, I mean, I mean,

frankly, it feels almost fake. Really jokes I have with people who are super Trumpy.

This is a Trump bashing podcast. I’m

crying. Not

I know, I blame it on the millennial here, but

Oh, you’re fine. But uh,

but honestly, it’s how do I, I don’t even know how to talk about it without sounding anti Trumpy, but. But at the end of the day, if somebody really believes the things that he’s laying out, going back to our conversation about playing our cards, like, I don’t want to be in conversation regularly with people like that. And I feel like when I’m with some of the more Trump supporting folk, I don’t feel like I’m really having honest conversation with them. I think it’s more small talk, and there’s just not as much meaning or depth to it. So what does that say about me that I can’t have a deeper relationship with somebody who disagrees with me?

Yeah, I was thinking I was just gonna say that, like, you can’t put it to the side and say, you know, again, as long as everyone’s being respectful to each other, it should be fine. But I get it. I mean, everyone has their own opinion on how they want to react to politics and stuff like that, but I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know. This whole thing is just bullshit.

It is. So, that leads me into my next wrap up question on this one. How do you maintain positive relationships with people who think that Trump has done nothing wrong?

Oh, we just kind of talked about that. I mean, you have to decide. Yeah, I mean, you just have to decide if if it’s worth a relationship, breakup or relationship, pause, you know, like, Facebook. Social media is hilarious, because you can like hide people. You can unfollow, unfollow, so you can do the non confrontational way. And I definitely did. For a few people. I there was one I actually like unfriended, like, the hatred coming out of his mouth about, you know, Trump, and I mean, against every word. Thank you. was so rough that I’m like, net. We’re done.

Yeah. Well, it

was just an acquaintance went to school together. So it’s no big deal. But yeah, I think you just need to, I think you need to stay positive. See where I struggle with is having relationship with people that are anti mask. I’m more on the Coronavirus side that really fires me up. about it about people’s attitude about that, but we won’t get that. That’s harder for me than a pop than the politics as far as Really? Yeah. It really, I really judge you if you don’t do the right thing during the pandemic, just let you know. And I mean, again, I’m not going to call you out on it, but I’m thinking about it. Not gonna lie.

And I think that’s how it is with me and people on the political spectrum. In their support of Trump. I am always thinking about it. And yeah, sometimes, no. Okay, here’s the thing. I’m a I’m a social media, social justice warrior, like you take me off of social media, and I don’t talk about those things.

So really,

well, okay. Well, do I talk about them? Yes, but I don’t talk about them with people who disagree with me. Typically, yeah. Unless I am convinced that that person is capable of having a heart to heart conversation and it’s not going to be you know, harmful, but there’s not many people in my life that I see differently that I talk to on an ongoing basis outside the family of course, clearly I have family members who are supportive of Trump but friend base and I don’t really think I have a lot of friends that are super Trump supporters. I don’t know

yeah, I I would say like over time meeting you and meeting Jesper and and the people that I’ve met in the last I don’t know five years is mostly non you know mostly liberal which is interesting for me because I didn’t that definitely have not been that way at all. You know, you you brought up the social media and I thought about it earlier and forgot but remembered it almost all social media and like those tech companies all lean left and I kind of feel bad for the republicans a little bit like what what platform which parlor was Yeah, do they have out there that cuz I mean, they should have a voice to not in the way that Trump is. Doing it or riling people up but what what do the republicans have? Because, you know, Amazon, I mean, Amazon runs the world, Facebook, Twitter, they’re all left leaning Google. And so where do the republicans have to go to? To hear their voice without?

That makes a lot of sense? Um, I never really thought about it. No,

I didn’t neither. But it just like, oh, by the way, parlor, you’re right leaning. So all of us left leaning companies that you need, you know, that you need. We’re kicking you off the platform.

It’s not just because they were right leaning, like many of the people who were plotting and scheming and planning for Wednesday’s overthrow of the Capitol Building, they did so on parler.

Clearly, because I didn’t see anything about it, like whatever was going on, I was actually surprised about it. Yeah. So

that’s why they’re cracking down on parlour. It’s not because just because they’re right, leaning out. But if you flip the script, it’s see it’s even hard to think of it that way. If some left leaning group used Facebook to promote something that pushed violence or resulted in violence, would there be a similar reaction? Or would they be let off the hook or ignored? It’s hard to say,

I feel like Twitter, in regard to at least Twitter I don’t know much about is how Facebook works. But I feel like Twitter’s pretty fair. They ban their fair share of both, you know what I mean? you violate, but that’s the thing, you know, it’s a private company, they can do what they want. You know, I always say if you if you don’t like it, then start something yourself. And just yeah, you know, you know, Alex Jones, he got banned all that and he just has his own. He hosts his own web stuff. And like, you know, you have to do all that. I’m not a fan of his all he’s crazy. But I’m just saying like, he got kicked off all the platforms like Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and all that, like, if you don’t like it, you’re just gonna have to create your own your own social media, I guess. But moving on as Christians, you know, do you agree or disagree to this statement? The only way this country can have peace is by allowing the Prince of Peace, Jesus to reign in our individual lives and communities and nation.


I disagree. As much as God as a part of my life, we still are human. And we do human things. And we, I don’t know, I mean, the only way we’re gonna have pieces of Jesus comes to Earth, like, because we’re all sinners, right. So I mean, that statement doesn’t work unless he’s down here and saying, What’s up?

Yeah. Now, this statement comes from somebody that I loosely follow. I’m not a huge fan. But this woman posted this the other day, and I read it, and I had a similar reaction to you. It’s just like, I see what you’re saying. But I also see where we live and how people operate. And maybe in an ideal world, if absolutely everybody on the face of the planet believed in Jesus, and believed that he is the Prince of Peace, and we allowed him to rule in our lives, then, of course, there would be peace. But let’s be real. We, we doubt I doubt. Often I question I, I don’t have full confidence always in my faith. I make mistakes. I’m selfish. And all the things I say about myself. Everybody else on this planet is too. And so just like you’re saying, Jason, there’s just not a I don’t see it. On this side of heaven, at least.

Yeah. I kind of feel like her making that statement, which is totally fine. I mean, I’m not mad at her for making it. It’s just, it’s just not it’s basically saying, Well, if you’re if you’re not a Christian, then like, Yeah, what happens to the pre Christians? Like, are they just left out of this? Right? You know what I mean? Because if you don’t believe in the Prince of Peace, then sorry about your luck.

Yeah, doesn’t apply to you. You don’t get peace, right. It doesn’t apply to you. So I don’t know if we can find peace. And we can bring peace without fully depending on Christianity to be that source.


I guess what I’m trying to say is, what stopping a Satanist or a Buddhist or a Hindu or an atheist or anybody. I think they can all have an experience of Peace, at least on this side of heaven, but just because they can have an experience or taste, it doesn’t mean it’s going to be present. I don’t know, I just don’t think we’re ever going to come to a place where we have total world peace here on Earth. Well,

what’s, what’s her definition of peace? Are we talking on the political spectrum? Are we talking about violence? Are we talking about what you know? Because having Christianity involved in politics, I mean, that’s kind of weird to me. Like, we don’t have to be a Christian to not be an asshole. Like. There’s a lot of people that do a lot of good in the world that aren’t Christians like, and that bring peace. Yeah. And they’re peaceful people. So it’s just I don’t know, there’s so many different ways that that statement could go again, it’s, I want, I think Jesus would bring more peace. And I think more people believing in Jesus, I think will bring more peace. But let’s look at the reality of it. That’s not gonna happen.

Yeah, so I guess I’m both because I do agree with a statement. But I’m also a realist. Yeah, don’t. Yes. The only way this country can have peace is by allowing the Prince of Peace, Jesus to reign in our individual lives and communities and nation. Yes, if, if Jesus reigned in, in our lives and communities and nation, there would be peace, but I’m a realist, and that’s not going to happen.

Well, yeah. And their sin. And I mean, look at my my upbringing. My parents were Christian. Like, there’s a lot of Christian assholes out there, you know, and I’m, like, this is just this statement. That’s it. It’s gone.

We’ve Yeah.

All right. Another statement. That was I think it was from the same person 100% sure anymore. What

is your name?

You said, You’ve loosely followed, even remember, and

I know their name. I’m just not gonna throw them under the bus. Okay. It’s nobody, you know, or anything like that. But it will take a United Church to restore unity to a divided nation. Okay, so here’s where I struggle with this one. It’s almost saying that the church Christians are better, and that they’re the only solution to the problem of a divided nation. And if I understand Christianity correctly, and if I understand Christ, when he says, The last shall be first and the first shall be last. I think the focus of the statement is a little bit off. I don’t think, I don’t know. I don’t think it’s the church’s sole duty, to restore unity to our divided nation. I think instead, the church’s duty is to, to be last, to be humble, to, in humility, work to change things, but not be like, Okay, I’m the church, we’re gonna make this country better. Like, I just don’t see it working that way. That was never the way of Jesus.

No, and I think the church can be there to support all of that. But again, what are we talking about a divided nation? Are you just talking about politics? Because that’s an that’s that happens in every country in the world, like in a, you know, even in a semi democracy or democratic country? I mean, you still have one side, one side believes the other like, what is Jesus Christ have to do with that both sides can be Christian and still disagree, and still minded?

I guess again, coming back to I think you brought it up earlier, what, what even is unity? Or what’s right? Or what is peace? You know, these words that we toss around? They sound Bible Lee and they sound like it’s something that we should be focused on. But I don’t remember seeing anywhere in Scripture, a kingdom or a people group that always were united in thought and practice. Indeed, I mean, maybe the church, but outside of the church, not so much.

Yeah, exactly.

I think there’s just always going to be division naturally. I mean, God didn’t make everybody to be carbon copies of each other. So we all have different ways of seeing things and doing things and is that division? I don’t know. I don’t think it necessarily has to be, but we’re not going to be the same. Yeah,

I always think about, this is a complete sidetrack, but like heaven, like, it’s gonna be, you know, what we know of it. What my thought of Heaven is, is like, everything’s gonna be great, and there’s gonna be no fighting or violence. To me, I’m like, that sounds really boring. You know what I mean? Like, if everyone gets along and everyone’s just happy. I mean, I don’t want violence by of course I want but I always think about that, like, when we all go to heaven, everyone has this picture of like, it’s just gonna be great. And you know, every everything that’s good with the earth, everyone thinks that’s what it’s gonna be like and happen all the time. And that sounds boring.


I mean, if I’m gonna live my entire life, my eternal life up there, whoever knows how long that is. I want to have some fun. Like, I feel like, you know, you think about sex with your wife, right? I know, complete digression Ben’s like, Oh, my gosh, it’s like, it’s the best thing in the world. Like, I mean, is that still gonna happen and heaven like worse? But what if I’m out there by myself for 20 years? And my wife’s down here? I mean, do I get to have sex? Like, do I? Do I remarry up in heaven? Like, what’s the deal? I know, that’s

way off. Well, that’s fine. Maybe we need to have an episode about having Ooh,

look at that. We’re coming up with content and content.

Right, amazing. Awesome. All right. Well, one of the other buckets that we like to focus on on thread is mental health. And this one is one that’s been on my mind a lot. since Wednesday. You know, I’ve always thought to myself, damn this Trump, he is king of the narcissist like he is so wrapped up in himself, and that is just not mentally healthy. I don’t think I’ve ever seen in time, while he was president, or before, like when I think of a mentally healthy person, I never would ever, ever, ever say Trump is mentally healthy. Never. Like he doesn’t even cross my mind when I think about the most, you know, healthy, healthy, mentally healthily people. It’s like, he’s not even near the list.

I think part of the problem is his whole life. And, you know, no one tells him No, yeah, but I mean, he’s got no one even before being president. And I think, you know, he just did what he wanted to do. And it’s just so hard for me to wrap my head around when you say that he so believes that he could that win the election, that he believed he could overturn it, that you genuinely think that he thought that it just blows my mind that somebody could be that wrapped up and even. I mean, at some point, you know, I spent a lot of bullshit to but at some point, I go to even myself, I go, this is this is bullshit. And, you know, I’m, I can’t continue with this. This is this is not working, or whatever it is. I just, it’s hard for me to feel like, he’s like that. But maybe that’s the definition of a narcissist.

I would love to hear Bobby to his feedback on Trump. I mean, she’s the one that her career has been focused primarily on working with people who have narcissistic tendencies. Yeah, I would love to hear her feedback.

Yeah. In regards to his mental health, I mean, I mean, when so I always who did I have this discussion with? I can’t remember I talked way too much. But mental health and mental illness, right? There’s a difference, right? We’re working on our mental health. But do we have actual mental illness meaning like, bipolar or chemical imbalance or whatever? Do you think he’s got a chemical imbalance? Like is a narcissist, that thing is probably not a chemical thing that was probably something that is that, you know, they talked about nature and nurture, and nurture thing?

I think it is, is it? That’s my perspective. But who knows, maybe Trump does have some chemical imbalance. And it’s never been dealt with. I mean, last episode, we talked about the gut. And what if your body impacts your mental health? We’ve all seen the photos like there was some meaning in the White House with NFL athletes, I think. And he got McDonald’s, his top food choice on Air Force One McDonald’s, like, kind of makes you wonder, I know, for me that if I’m loading up on garbage, it’s going to impact my mental health. And when I look at the president, just from a diet perspective, there’s definitely a big question mark there.

Yeah, I’ll be honest with you, if I had like a few money in the President, I would eat so I’d be so fat like, I probably wouldn’t eat McDonald’s ever again. But man, I tell you that I would be I would be eating good man. Holy cow. Probably Pinera. Oh, yeah,

that would be amazing.

So in regards to mental health, we both think that he’s got some issues, which is obvious. I would really like to explore the narcissist part of nurture nature, like, I’m trying to think in my head, like, how does someone from a little baby grow up like that? How does that become a thing? Because I, like I get, you know, your abuse. So you abuse your kids like I get that nurture part. But I’d be curious about the narcissist part of that. But moving on as far as is this country as a whole? Do you think this country values mt mental health as a whole perhaps, could have avoided all this? I don’t think they do. I think it’s getting closer. But I don’t think it would have avoided any of that. Like, I mean, you’re kind of saying that all the Trump people that ride and have mental health problems?

Well, maybe they do. I’m in a roundabout way. That’s basically what you said. Yeah. Well, it is a big question, though. And maybe I’m being too narrow with it. But maybe my second follow up question makes it a little bit clearer where I’m going with that. So seeking mental health treatment, you could agree or disagree with this. But for me, when I think about it, you mentioned earlier, the conversations you’ve had over the last five years, and how a lot of your circle has been leaning more left or liberal. And I would say the same thing. in conversations about mental health, it seems to me that those who are willing to engage in conversation about mental health and see it as important, they’re typically those who lean a little bit more left of center politically, it seems to me in my experience, and again, this is all I have to go on is my experience. But it’s generally those on the Right, those who kind of have that mentality of pull yourself up by the bootstraps, hard work, blue collar, whatever the case may be. Those are the people who are less likely to see value in mental health treatment and see it as a legitimate concern. They might see somebody who’s seeking mental health therapy as being a snowflake, for example. So that’s kind of my, my thought process with that question, if more of the right sought help for their mental health, I think we might see, I don’t think the entire event wouldn’t have happened. But you know, I think when somebody is is very mentally ill, and it’s not being addressed. Things like this can happen.

You know, yeah, that is such a really good question. But I never thought about that, why people on the left tend to lean more towards getting treatment for that. You know, I always look at the left, like, oh, they’re hippie dippie, which they’re not all are they love yoga, they love you know, all that they love their mental health. And then the people on the right, they’re like, Nah, you know, we don’t we don’t do that stuff. And I think it kind of boils down to the nurture thing again, you know, I have the bootstrap mentality of like, I, you know, let’s go to work. If shit needs to get done. Let’s just get it done. But I’m also a huge proponent of mental health. So I don’t know that’s such a good. I never thought about that. Why it leans so much more to the left and not the right. But

in, in your experience with a therapist that you’ve worked with? know if they’re a good therapist, you probably wouldn’t have any idea. But would you guess that the mental health people that you’ve had connections with Do you think they’re more left leaning? Right leaning center?

That’s a really good question. My my therapist has a really good poker face. Hmm. That’s a really good question. I don’t I don’t know. I mean, my gut feeling says left, but just because they’re in that kind of work.

Yeah, exactly. But there again, that kind of work. Like when did that kind of work become lined up with what I know. That’s so

funny. That’s I never ever thought about that before. Yeah, why would why is it that someone that isn’t, as a nurse or social worker is more likely to get mental health treatment over someone that’s a welder? Yeah. Very odd. Interesting. Yeah, that’s all I got on that Benny boy.

All right. So again, Just revealing how much time I spend on Facebook, it’s a lot, I saw another post from another friend. And she just wrote very candidly that it was hard for her to just get back to work as normal on Thursday, as if nothing ever happened. And initially, I was kind of like, what a snowflake kind of thing to say. But then I sat with that for a minute. And I thought, hmm, that was a pretty traumatic event. And maybe because of things that have happened in this person’s life. Maybe it’s really shaken them. And maybe this was super unexpected, you know, I think of like Columbine, when the school shooting happened, or 911, like the world stopped after 911. And so I guess I have a little bit more understanding that maybe it was hard for her because she just witnessed something that happened on American soil. That hasn’t happened in 200 years. And it was by our own people, like, it was a pretty terrible event. So I guess we’re going with that is, how did you feel after the event? And do you? Can you understand or level with anybody who might have had a hard time going back to work on Thursday?

Yeah, I wouldn’t call them a snowflake, per se. And I try. It’s hard for me, I’m really working on. Like, to the pandemic. I try not to judge people that don’t want to wear a mask, blah, blah, blah. And I try not to judge people that that feel like, it was very traumatizing to them. But for me, like, I was like, these dumb efforts, whatever. Like, I’m going to work I ain’t got time for your bullcrap. Like you guys are a bunch of idiots. And anyone that got hurt you got what coming to you? Like, no, I mean, it. These other countries that look at us, they’re actually experiencing persecution from the government have to be like, what the actual You know what? Like, you guys have the best of everything in the world. The best we can get anything we want. And you’re revolting over what? What are you doing? Like I feel bad for the countries that are don’t can’t even eat a meal every day. And their government can provide it. Or they tell their the people that live in the government tells them what to do, like, shut the hell up. That was my attitude. I was like, Okay, these dumb asses. I’m going back to work. Like, while it affected me and it, it hurt me that that happened. I was just like, whatever. Next day?


If it directly affected me, if I had a father that was a police officer there or, you know, any, even if I had family that was there as a writer, it would affect me more, but I still would be like, well, I’m going to work. I gotta go to work. I gotta get my life has to go on.


But other than that, I other than 911? i, that one got me. Just because I don’t know maybe because the people that did it weren’t part of this country actually should be more upset that our own Americans did it. But I don’t know. Maybe it was the less. It wasn’t as much destruction or loss of life. So. But I was pretty shaken by 911. It was. It was pretty upsetting to me. But yeah, that’s kind of my attitude. I was just like, you know, Megan actually brought it up. It’s just, it’s just like an uneasy feeling. Right? I’m still gonna go to work. I just feel a little like, Huh, this, this climate is just uncomfortable. Yeah. So I shouldn’t. I shouldn’t say I don’t think about it. I’ve thought about it every day. But it’s just everyone. Like you said, when you were at the wedding, like you were having that presence of just not so much if they were Trump supporters. It’s just, it’s just an ugly like cloud. Yeah, I’m gonna leave it at that.

Yeah, that’s a really good way to put it.

What about you? You know,

I think I’m with you. I think the best way to look at it is just, it’s like this cloud that’s hovering. And you’re wondering if that cloud is gonna bring wind or hail or snow or rain or what’s going to come from it. And it’s just really hard to get away from that cloud. It’s just full of uncertainty. But like you said, life has to go on. You know, security systems need to be sold. You know, gig work needs to be accomplished, people need their stuff. Things just gotta keep happening. And that’s just the reality of it. So, yes, I think it’s important and valuable to maybe pause for a minute and just take stock like, am I okay? Am I feeling anxious? Am I having a hard time with this? And if you are, for sure, seek help. But to just abruptly stop and be like, can’t do anything. capital was invaded. I’m shaking, and I can’t do anything. I don’t think that’s the way forward either. I think it’s just being honest with yourself and talking about it. And moving forward.

Yeah. Again, I think, you know, and I’m not trying to pile on this person. But I just think sometimes Facebook is just like people’s diary. And they’re looking for a reaction of whatever, right, Ben?

Yes. And I am just becoming more and more aware of the fact that

I just need to stop Facebook so often, but it’s so hard. Like, it’s just what I do. If I get a free moment, pull up my phone, scroll through Facebook, I get that we could have a whole like conversation about breaking away. Aye. Aye. Aye. This is the first time since I’ve had a Facebook account since 2008. That I’ve not had it on my phone.

Yeah. That’s Yeah,

that’s one thing that this this toxic and political environment has brought is like, I can’t look at this during the day. Megan’s even said that she’s noticed, when I stopped doing it, the anxiety went down a little bit. Like she could just tell that I was less like, bitching about stuff or bitching about somebody and but

I just imagined my life without Facebook. And there are some people that it just wouldn’t connect with outside of Facebook. But there’s also almost a sense of relief that comes with that thought, like, I wouldn’t have to know that my dad posted this or that. He might have his thing and it doesn’t even have to bother me. Yeah, well, I’m not even looking at it.

Yeah, what a life without knowing what people actually think.

Yeah. And that’s where I think social media, it has its place, but it it can get super unhealthy. It erases all boundaries. It seems like like you can’t really have very many boundaries, and be on social media.

Just go to Reddit, why don’t you just find a username? No one knows who you are.

There you go. I mean, back in the day, I loved it. When you just had the usernames and you could, you know, it wasn’t attached to you necessarily.

Although you and I are normal. There’s people that don’t care that their name is attached to us saying horrible things. I’m like, you realize I’m seeing who you are. Right? You can see you when you post those things. Yep. Then they just clearly don’t care. But yeah, oh

my goodness.

Well, as we wrap up we thank you guys so much for just being a listener and hanging in with us on this one hour and some odd minute. Again, I say too bad I’m like we can we can keep it like 30 minutes, 40 minutes and then Ben and I get talking and it’s you know, 67 minutes in so that’s okay, that’s okay. But thank you for for hanging in with us and supporting us through all this again, you can go to buy me a search threads podcasts if you want to support us financially. You can do all this on our website. I just need to start directing people to our website if you go to threads, podcast calm, and you can sign up for a newsletter and buy me coffee and all that fun stuff. Anything else? Ben, what else do we got cookin? Nothing else we’re, we’re fly by the seat of our pants right now. We’re trying. We’re trying.

Yeah, I’m just looking forward to the day where we’re back in the studio. I mean, this is fine and and nobody can see this. But right before we started recording, I pulled up my easy chair from behind me and got super comfortable, which is nice in my office. I’m home. I don’t have to drive home. But I really miss the connection and just the face to face recording. So I guess just thanks to our listeners for hanging in. Even though this isn’t typical for threads podcast. We’re making the most of it and thanks for being along.


thank you. Yeah, talk to you later. Have a good one.



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